UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum NSKK Real, Reproduction or Part Dagger

Hi Everyone:
Just picked up this dagger and I am not sure what it is. It might be a parts dagger, real one or a reproduction. The dagger is maker mark WKC. The scabbard is the normal black with no dings or dents. The one thing is it is missing the screw by the hanging ring. There is not even a hole there for a screw. The scabbard is the same size as a regular SA/NSKK. The cross guards are marked P1 inside and I believe those are real. The grip is nice and has the correct eagle and SA symbol. The cross guards and grip fit together very nicely and seem to match. Now here is the real strange thing. The blade is marked WKC on the back but there is no motto on the front. Also the blade is the same length as the SA/NSKK but is more narrow near the tang then a SA blade. The tang has been ground to fit in the SA grip. The throat of the scabbard does fit blade but is not wide enough for a regular SA blade. It is like the scabbard throat was made for the blade. Anyway take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think. I am pretty sure that the cross guard and grip are original but I am not sure of about the blade. Maybe put together right after the war. It is a well made piece and not like the cheap reproductions I have seen. Please let me know what you think.
Jim

Jim:
I can't really tell from your pictures but is there any indication the obverse was once etched with the motto and than ground off for some reason? A thinner blade as I expect you know is usually a sign of post war manufacture.
Jim

Jim, This is the 2nd or 3rd Ive seen in the last couple months. All were the same construction. The eagle and roundel were pined to the grip not inlaid with the thin unmottoed blades. My opinion is that someone found some original parts and has been putting these together.

That mark is not correct for WKC on SA blades. Originals have a different helmet, no "waffenfabrik" and narrow WKC etch.

Hi Skyline,heres the makers mark from http://www.Germandaggers.com Ref. It seems to be the same as the one on the dagger,regards stan

Heres an other one,so which one is the right one,,Stan

I used to have one of these, years ago, identical construction, no blade motto, narrow blade, and very distinctive WKC logo. It was my conclusion that it was early post-war parts assembly - most of the parts authentic, but the blades made up to complete the assembly.

FJS

nats I believe the second one you show is correct for SA.

I think the ridge is to sharp , but the maker-mark logo is very good - perhaps an original pattern .

That blade looks wrong to me right off the bat. Too narrow. Compare to this Henkels My 2 cents

This blade is an RLB 2nd Model EM blade. This is probably a parts dagger from the end of WWII, as the piece appear correct and the mounting of the eagle on an uncut handle is typical of the late 1940s or end of the war period.

Just for what it is worth, The eagle seems to be set too high in the handle also.

Hey Ron (Weinand),

Have you ever seen an RLB 2nd pattern EM with this same blade and trademark?
FJS

I have an RLB 2nd EM dagger with the same maker and 100% authentic.
Regards.

FJS: Yes I have and it had the pot metal plated typical WKC fittings. Not one that I would have had in my collection, but real and out of one of my motel buys.
Deutscher: You are right on this one. Thanks for the support.
I have also seen some loose blades with this WKC TM and same style on some parts pieces that were leftovers and bring backs.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Excellent call Ron! It did not occur to me that the blade was an RLB even though my very first dagger bought for me in the early 50's by my dear old Dad had this very same TM. It was the 1st. model RLB EM though--so I always thought this TM was early-perhaps not. The price-$15.00. There was a beautiful silver Luft sword there too for $25-but that was a little too much for that damn Nazi thing.

Hard to believe my dagger had an improper late blade bought at this early time-anyone else have an early one with this type TM?

Ron Weinand - well spotted. I completely missed the RLB blade possibility. This (partially) because I have never seen RLB's featured in the WKC Catalogue (at least not in the 1938, and 1939 editions). I also checked the Price List/Inventory for these editions - and it doesn't show up there, either.

I suspect that WKC didn’t get involved in RLB dagger production until following the outbreak of war, 1939, at which point there would have been a massive increase in the membership - as the general population swelled those ranks in a nationalistic fervour of “belonging”.

I attach a photograph of another such piece - this time, obverse only. The photograph was taken in April 1969 - not my collection, but I think it was belonging to a friend called John Burden. (Not heard from him in 35 years, so cannot fully confirm). You will identify the narrow RLB blade immediately. Observe, also, the National Eagle - set too high on the grip, and how about those scabbard fittings - a not a single screw with any of them.

I am sure that the WKC RLB Enlisted Man’s Dagger existed. But I suspect that it’s life was short, and hence not many known examples. I think that the bulk of the spare parts ended up in “parts assembly” daggers of the calibre we have been discussing.

FJS

That eagle looks crooked?!Also , what are the demensions of the scabbard versus an SA?Tiep

Yya, looks very wierd.
The SA button looks like it is standing out from the grip as well as the eagle. Where things meet up in the grip just dont look right, not to mention the blade!

Being a sucker for a mystery, I bought this dagger from Jim. I have not figured out what it is quite yet, but if you have a question, I have it here before me.

Dave