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OP
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Late last year, I acquired this long Pack Pioniere bayo:
Obverse
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
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Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
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Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Grip. Some Pack pioniere style bayos had standard rivets and grip plates, this one has the Pack offset spanner bolts.
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
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The other side of the grip
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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OP
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The thing that I need your help with is this set of stamped numbers on the scabbard lug:
I S 2068
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Nice bayonet John! Love these pioniers! I also have a Pack Pionier very simmilar to yours. However, I have never seen a scabbard like that before. Any info on it? JAN 
An avid KS98 bayonet collector.
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John
Take a picture of the throat of the scabbard and post. Is there a screw holding the scabbard throat to the scabbard body.
TKissinger
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OP
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Here are pictures of the throat and scabbard screws.
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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OP
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There are screws at the front and the back of the scabbard.
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
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Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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OP
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I don't want to force the frog off the scabbard.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Joined: Mar 2000
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John,
A beautiful looking piece. I haven't seen too many Pack Pionier pieces with the spanner nuts, very nice to see one in such condition. Most of those I've seen have had centered rivets which goes Wayne T's theory that most of Pack's Feuerwehr & Pionier models might have been purchased from another manufacturer. Scabbard looks like a vet replacement & I suspect the frog as well but they don't diminish the beauty of this bayonet to me.
GDC Gold Badge #290
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Hi guys,
The scabbard looks like it's from a Belgian 1889 Civil Guard bayonet.
Len
"If it ain't baroque don't fix it." Johann Sebastian Bach
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I think Len is correct. Pick up the right scabbard for your bayonet.
Its unusual to have the spanner nuts on the obverse side of the hilt, may have been put together wrong at one time.
TKissinger
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Here is my E. Pack, notice I have the permanent rivets.  
TKissinger
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I have an etched Pack Pioniere style with the standard, not offset, rivets.
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
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Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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OP
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,858
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Nice piece John. Don't see to many etched Pioneer bayonets
TKissinger
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Terry;
It's the only one that I have.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Joined: Mar 2000
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John,
Another great piece, nice Pack etch named to a machine gun unit & a rare hilt pattern. What more could one want?
GDC Gold Badge #290
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Gentlemen.
I have several variants of etched bayonets in
near mint condition.My question is..would it be
acceptable to repaint the scabbards to reflect the condition of the blades..just doesnt display well,especially with minty portepees
attached.
Opinions,please
Joe
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Never repaint a scabbard!!!!!!!!!!!
leave the damage on the scabbard that is original the paint you spray on ìs`nt
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quote: Originally posted by joepo:
Gentlemen.
I have several variants of etched bayonets in
near mint condition.My question is..would it be
acceptable to repaint the scabbards to reflect the condition of the blades..just doesnt display well,especially with minty portepees
attached.
Opinions,please
Joe
Hey! As janjan said, it would be a sin to do so. Leave them as they are and you will be better off. There is no point repainting a scabbard. It should display age and in fact, most people prefer seeing some usage to them. ALL IN ALL, DO NOT REPAINT A SCABBARD  JAN
An avid KS98 bayonet collector.
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If a beater scabbard bothers you, pick up a spare in nice condition that matches the blade for display purposes. I do agree with those that say don't repaint a scabbard.
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Problem solved, don't display the scabbards. 
TKissinger
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Hi Guys,
Great Etched Pionier bayonet John. It is interesting that Pack had an order for both Single-etched citation to MG Unit 9 Heiligenbeil and the Double-Etched MG Unit 9 Heiligenbeil as featured on page 160 of my book, which is also a Pionier. Having both types in my book would have been nice.
I Love This Stuff
von Ryan
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Wayne, Problem solved, do a volume 2! I'm sure you've come across numerous blades that didn't make it in your first volume since publishing it. I'm sure a lot of guys here (& elsewhere) would buy it even if many of the pieces were the repeats from your initial book. Terry, Great storage & display rack. It would be a shame not to show such beautifully etched blades. With my luck, I'd mess up the scabbards
GDC Gold Badge #290
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Gentlemen
thanks for your input,
will post my bayonets soon.
Joe
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Here's my SHORT Pack Pioneer w/ stag grips:
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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Joined: Aug 2000
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MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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Joined: Aug 2000
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MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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OP
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Ron:
That is a beauty. How often does one see a Pioniere type bayo with two rare features, the stag grips and the short length?
Up until recently, I was under the impression that only long versions of the Pioniere were produced.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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John, Agree completely, a great piece. I think those are the reasons Ron kept this one
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I have seen 3 short Pioneers over the years I have been collecting and this one is THE ONLY one I have seen with stag grips. RARE is the word, and best of all its a Pack. IMO the Cadillac of the dress bayonet makers.
Ron Weinand
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Ron, John and Mr.Jerry all i can say is niceeee! I'll get serious about collecting Bayo's when thing's turn around. Hey Ron put me in your will...as if! hehehe
Eric
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I've shown these before, but here are the four basic Pionier variations. Unfortunately I don't have any Pack examples.
(left to right)
E&F Hörster
unmarked
C. Gustav Spitzer
Carl Julius Krebs
The Krebs is one of the three short models previously owned by Ron.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Interesting patent leather KS98 frog.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Denny
I don't think I have ever seen one marked that way.
TKissinger
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Denny:
I have the first, second and third versions of the ones that you showed.
The first is a long Eichorn 35-41 maker marked.
The second is a short unmarked.
The third is a long Eickhorn double oval serrated tail mark.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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quote: Originally posted by JohnZ:
Denny:
I have the first, second and third versions of the ones that you showed.
The first is a long Eichorn 35-41 maker marked.
The second is a short unmarked.
The third is a long Eickhorn double oval serrated tail mark.
John
John - I think the fourth one; the short model with the unclipped pommel is the rarest of the quartet. Ron had it for sale at the 2005 SOS and then it popped up for sale later that year by another seller. For once I got lucky and bought it for less that 50% of Ron's original asking price. I have a few other Pioneers, but don't recall the makers. I know one of them is an early Paul Weyersberg oval mark.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Denny, You ARE a lucky dog, just admit it
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I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that Ron Weinand's price was unreasonable. He was asking about the same price as a Prussian-style Police bayonet at the time. I've seen hundreds of Police Seitengewehrs since then - but this is the only Pioneer of this style so his price was ok in my book.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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