UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Navy "Assault" Dagger

After seeing John Z.'s beautiful example here, I have tried to research these misnamed, elusive daggers and found available information sketchy, at best. Unforunately, I don't have TW's volume on navy daggers that might shed more light on the subject. What little I have found indicates there were several makers of these daggers, Puma being the most prominent. They seem to sometimes come in slight variations. Several decades ago, reproductions were produced. Some have more extensive hand-enhancing to the pommel and crossguard than others. I have noticed in photos some crossguard eagles show fletching to the eagle's breast and wings, while others do not. If anyone can elaborate on these daggers, it would be greatly appreciated. It would be interesting to see photos of repro's, if such can be found. Thanks.

Cliff:

I know you said that you don't have Wittman's navy book. But, this dagger is described and pictured on pages 354 to 363. Only Puma is mentioned as the producer and there are 3 different scabbard variations pictured (a lightning design with army type scabbard bands, a lightning design withe figure of eight bands and a hammered scabbard). Also shown is the dagger as pictured in the Puma 1939-40 catalog.

John

Thanks, John. Any mention or photos of the eagle with or without hand-fletching? It seems those with it are more likely to be the norm, if not the only authentic ones, although I have a reference book that indicates otherwise.

Cliff:

The only mention I have seen (and in Wittman's Navy book) was hand enhancement of the scabbard bands on the lightning bolt scabbard. Nothing on the eagle.

I am posting some pictures of my second scabbard for this dagger on the original post.

John

Interesting--Do you see what can happen here? You find one of these daggers-NOT by PUMA--you don't have THE book-you pay the big bucks--Guess what? You have just been------! Uh--taken to the cleaners big time. Buy books! Its one of the best things you can do for yourself--and don't buy any "Navy Assault daggers" not made by PUMA.

Cause if you read the book it will tell you that the "assault" design was a Puma only patent design like on the TENO's were for Eickhorn. So that's why you won't find TENO's or Navy Assault dagger with with any other maker...that are authentic.

Regards,
-serge-

That is why I asked. At least one of the earlier reference books by a reputable author states they were made by several makers. I have yet to resolve the issue of the hand-enhancing. I have found no answer to that question in any reference and if anyone here knows the answer, they ain't sayin'. So, as valuable as the books are, they don't always provide totally comprehensive information.

All of the very few originals I have seen have been obvious "custom" ordered pieces. ALL PUMA but with different scabbards, some with ivory grips, etc. So IMO some could be hand enhanced -others not--IMO not a determining factor for authenticity. With these you have to examine everything. Repros are a bit low on quality-almost never get the pommel right, usually have some kind of funky blade with a Kiel monument or warship etc. and the wrong maker.

Thanks, Houston. That is enlightening. Oddly, one of the early references shows photos of a repro and an authentic one. The repro guard eagle has fletching, the authentic one does not. However, there are likely other differences in the guard that are hard to see in the photos. I suppose a good "faker" would go to the trouble to have the enhancing done on a fake guard. Again, I can find no reference material about the enhancing of the guard and pommel. It appears other factors must first be taken into consideration and the hand-enhancing, or lack thereof, in and of itself, is not a reliable indicator of authenticity.

Oldmarketplace Puma Navy on Ebay.

Check it

I would be reluctant to bid on it.

Here is a picture I took less than a year ago in Germany.. Master patterns..... It is also true they used this dagger modified for export after the war.... Some of the repros. are newer than we think.. For your viewing pleasure. Regards: James
I also think the puma trademark should be stamped not etched as on the one on e-bay...You will rarely see a 100% original dagger..

Oh, boy. No wonder the guy on eBay has no return on that one.

Please see the Alpers SS dagger thread regarding the seller.

I agree-Stamped TM is correct on these. Usually plain blade also. Notice the pommel is not quite right as I stated before. These fakes will also be encountered with just the regular Nazi eagle pommel. You have to be REALLY SURE when you pay the big bucks for one of these. Even then many will question it.

I agree, Houston. The opening bid on the eBay example is absurdly low for a real one. Also, there is nothing "mysterious" about what these daggers are. Most decent references will at least have a photo of one, even if it's the factory drawing.