UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories German Military Uniform Forum Badge Shadow Question

A while ago I bought this uniform. It is well used, and a bit moth eaten around the collar, but it had a been there done that look, that I really like.

I finally got around to documenting it, and found a shadow on the left sleeve I did not expect.

It is on the upper arm, 14cm from the top of the sleeve (about 5.5 inches).

It is oval in shape, about 8cm high and 5.5cm wide (3.15 x 2.16 inches).

Only two badges I can think of, would fit this space. The Boat Pilot's badge (Steuermann), or a Lappland Shield.

The first is much more likely, however, according to Uniforms and Traditions of the German Army 1933-45 Vol 2 (Page 17) it was only issued to NSO's and Privates.

Has anyone seen any photos of an officer wearing this badge?

Of course, someone who ended the war as a Major could have been in the ranks when they gained the qualification, given that all German officers who got their commission after 1933 theoretically spent time in the ranks, before their appointment (according to my reference sources).

Enjoy the photos, and any thoughts would be appreciated.

David!

Overview of the uniform, a Major from Pioneer Battalion 21 (part of Infantry Division 21).

Sleeve in question. Loose threadfragments appear to be dark green.

There are other items of interest.

Look at the right sleeve. Shadows of what can only be two single handed tank destruction awards.

Pocket shows shadows of EK1 and some form of Assault Badge. Careful comparison of the shadow to actual badges makes me think it is a numbered PAB (25 or 50). The 'track' bulge on the right side is the wrong shape for a basic PAB.

As a Pioneer, I would guess the PAB to be in bronze, not silver.

Rest of the badges are intact (although some of the stitching is now not in good condition).

Last one

The tank destruction badges were obviously added at different times, and although you really don't get a good idea of the shadows from these low res pictures, they are quite prominent.

Unfortunately, any tailor's marks and name tags have been long removed, but I reckon the combination of awards is likely to be unique enough to identify the soldier, if only German wartime records were not so fragmentary.

This uniform is not a post war fantasy piece, or one that someone turned into a 'christmas tree' for display purposes (by hanging lots of decorations on it).

Can anyone get a list of Majors from this unit (Pi.Btl.21)? Presumably there would only be about five slots for majors, so maybe a dozen people would have shuttled through the positions, after 22 June 1943 (the date higher PAB awards were instituted).

Any ideas?

David!

Last question. Do you think I should restore this tunic, by finding the missing badges, and re-applying them?

The down side of this is putting the badges back on hides the proof that this tunic deserved them.

I never have any qualms about replacing inned on award badges, as they were fairly generic, since the Germans didn't offically mark them with the recipient's name and details (as the English and other Commonwealth countries like Canada and Australia did).

David!

Dave,, everyone will tell you something different.. Me? If I had that,,I'd restore it in a sec.!..
Getting 2 TDB's might be a challenge!. I got a vets tunic a couple years ago. He said the only thing he ever had was a BWB. It wasn't on the jacket. I found one in matching condition to the jacket and put it through the loops..
That will look very cool restored!, I'd go for it.


I don't think that's a Lappland shield.. Check the order of battle etc,, I didn't see anything [?] that shows the unit could have got it in 45.. Also many a pioneer got the Steuermann badge though..


Go on this forum [hopefully you know German] to check in detail. They have been an immense help to me many a time. Being a German site you might actually get a member who had family in the unit!

http://militaria-fundforum.com/index.php


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Gaspare,

Getting tank destruction badges is not an issue, I have some already.

I didn't think it was a Lappland shield, but it is the only other thing I could think of that goes in that location, and is that size.

My main questions are -
Do you think the reference is wrong, and officers could get the Steuermann, or he did get it before his commission?

I know the trade badges are generally NCO only, or NCO and Other Ranks only, but this is a special case. Pioneers were responsible for small boats, when river crossings were required, so why only let the non-officers be boat pilots?

Is this officer flaunting dress regulations by wearing this badge?

Has anyone seen any photos of an officer wearing this badge?

David!

TDBs,,Hey, you have some already! your almost there!

With the badge most of the time the simplest answer is the most correct,,, he got it before his commission! ,, I wouldn't think there would be a real problem of him wearing it afterwards.. It makes the most sense it would be on this tunic..

Can't really see,, is there loops for a ribbon bar?

Gaspare,

No ribbon bar loops, but that does not surpise me. This is a field service tunic. On the very odd occasion when he might need to display all his wares (like a visiting general, or Signal photographer) he probably pinned it straight to the jacket.

As a major I would guess he would have the 4 year army service medal, at least, in addition to the EK2.

According to Wikipedia - it's parent (21 Inf Div) was mobilised in the 1st wave in 1939, the division took part in the German invasion of Poland and the following year's invasion of France. For the next four years, it fought on the Eastern Front, largely as part of Army Group North, assigned to Eighteenth Army.

After being involved in series of defensive battles and retreats to Riga as the Soviet army liberated their territory, late 1944 saw the 21st Infantry Division again in East Prussia, assigned to Third Panzer Army in the area of Tilsit before being reallocated to Fourth Army and deployed in the area of Insterburg, facing the Soviet East Prussian Offensive. Along with the bulk of Fourth Army it was encircled and largely destroyed in the Heiligenbeil pocket in the closing weeks of the war. Remnants of the division's forces were transported over the Frisches Haff to Pillau and Samland, where the unit was eventually dispersed in battle with Soviet troops, while some elements escaped along the Frische Nehrung to Hela and eventually by sea to Schleswig-Holstein.

This would imply the frozen meat medal, is likely, at least.

Commemorative medals of 1938 are also conceivable. So at least a three medal bar, if not more.

Of course, the one thing I don't currently have to complete this uniform is a boat pilot's badge, but that shouldn't be too hard.

David!

Loops, pins, replacement insigina, buttons,,forget textbook. Most of these guys were in the field continuously!

medals: EK2, flower campaign medals, a long service, Russian front, maybe even a war service cross.

badges: EK 1 , PAB, Steuermann

What a great hisory the unit has! A nice jacket Dave,, please lets see it when your done! , thanks ,. G.