UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum HUNTING ASSOCIATION GAME WARDEN AGING BOARD

How these boards were originated is a guessing game but someone took the time to kill eight deer and clean the jaws to put this together. It is assumed that the boards were place at check stations and other official buildings to correctly tell the age of the deer. The great part of this board is it was printed with the hunting emblem of the Third Reich period. The sad part is it was printed on a Masonite type board but has survived all these years and was saved before it faded away.
Once you get into collecting the forestry and hunting daggers you will learn that this was all big time with the German population. Hunting was a major sport and the license to obtain the privilege of hunting what extremely difficult to obtain.
I will try and add to this forum some of the many items and procedures that were required to obtain the hunting licenses.
If you want to follow through with this research you might want to get Volume 1 collecting the edge weapons of Imperial German by LTC, (Ret) Thomas M. Johnson and Thomas T. Wittmann. Chapter 6 page 267 will start you on the right track of German hunting since 700 A.D. This will acquaint you with Saint Hubertus the �Patron Saint of Hunting�. It will also start you out with the Birth of all of these beautiful HIRSCHFANGERS. Believe me there were thousands of them produced long before the Third Reich came along. The fortunate part of all of this is Herman Goring came along in this long time slot and he like hunting and so enhanced the Hirschfangers into an even more dramatic appearance. A hundred SS daggers on display can be a great showing of the different makers of the same style over and over again. Try a hundred Hirschfanger on display and the room will light up like a Christmas tree. To each his own.

This year I will try and add many hunting and forestry and shooting club accessories to this particular subject on the forum. It is always appreciated if others will also join in and display any items on this subject. Everybody has bits and pieces that fit in along these lines. Let�s make this a Forum Posting to get some things out of the old wood work.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Photograph #1

Photograph #2

The Third Reich emblems appear on almost all of the official hunting documents and papers of that period. I will gather up some of the ones I have and add them to these hunting posts to give you and overall pictures of how large and protected this field was. I do not speak German and have no idea what they say. Hopefully you will be able to give explanations to some of the papers and cards as they are shown.

Photograph #3.

Photograph #4

Photograph #5

Photograph #6

Photograph #7.

Photograph #8.
Game tags. Notice they have a metal stamped DJ emblem.

Photograph #9
Hunting lodge with large flag on the side of the building.

Incredible!

Where else can you find information such as this ?

Many thanks, sir,

Dave

Wonderful info! I really like those game tags. Those would look nice next to some hunting daggers.

Ralph,

Now that's what I'd call a unique and interesting item, there can't be too many of these left in existence ..? it'll make a splendid addition to your Jagd Rustkammer.

Most of the heavier card stock pulp-formulas were loaded with natural acids that cause severe deterioration as time goes on. That's why a lot of printed material from this period looks foxed, burned and actually starting to fall apart. Another reason why items like this are so rare, many of them simply tend to "self-destruct," from the inside out - the nature of the beast. A museum would most likely have such an object ph-neutralized by a professional conservator to insure a long, healthy lifespan, but that can be fairly costly.

Your enthusiasm and willingness to share your world-class collection should be an inspiration to all of us, especially those just getting a feel for the hobby. You've shown us so many fine, rare hunting and forestry items over the years - sincere thanks for that ...

I hope you'll be sharing much more with us for a long time to come.

Best regards!

Bill

Thank you Dave, Ed and Bill for yourinters in these posts.

To continue Photograph # 10.
Before the Third Reich time period hunting was a major activity for the German royalty families. This goes back to the beginning of this post where it was stated the hunting was glamorized since it began in 700 AD. This will help give you an understanding of the reasoning for the hunting hirschfangers being more ornate than the average daggers that were made for commercial use.
The following photographs will show a series of prints of one of the Kaisers hunts. He had a staff artist follow the sequence of the hunt which gives you an idea of all of the effort and procedures that went into the hunt. To follow through on this group of paintings is a elaborate cloth bound 8 x 10 and a half inch announcement type book for the outline of the sommer hunt by Schub Siste in 1910. The cover on this is a deep blue cloth with the printing looking like it may be embossed gold leaf. Following is also a framed pair of cards for a hunt by Franx Joseph 1. and Der Kaiser von Oeserrich and Apost Konig Von Ungarn.
At this point of these posts you can see that my lack of knowledge of the German language leaves my interest for me in the dark and it will be greatly appreciated if any of our German speaking members will tune in and help with the meaning of many of these German words.

Photograph #11

Photograph #12

Photograph #

Photograph # 14

Photograph #15

Photograph #16.

Photograph #17.

Photograph #18

Photograph #18/18

Photograph #19

Photograph #20

Photograph #21

Photograph #22

Photograph #24

Photoograph #24
Invitational hunting schedule.

Photograph #24
schedual

Photograph #24aa

Photograph #25

Photograph #26

Photograph #27

photograph #28

Ralph,
For all of us that have a burning interest in this stuff. It's more than a pleasure to learn more from you and your collection. I hope I'm not jumping ahead of you but I just wanted to add that the lower jaws are an important part of the trophy as well as for identification and age determination, because teeth shed and wear down at certain times during the life of a deer it�s a more accurate way of estimating age, more so than estimating age with antlers. On Euro mounts the lower jaws are kept for the most part in the back of the antler mount. When I get some time I will get my step ladder out and see if I can take mine down for a picture to show.

Your board is for Roe deer, I�ve seen these boards for different types of deer as well as sets of antlers utilized as reference and a learning/educational tool in nature parks as well as some museums for visitors which learn and discuss the how and why this all helps in the management of deer populations. Due to mans intervention I understand the reasons as many of you do and why it�s important and necessary to manage populations of game animals in general, but I also understand that if a hunter goes the route of leasing land for hunting, he is responsible for managing that land and all the animals that live on it. When he submits his management plan and it�s approved for a certain number of game animals to be taken which includes of course varying ages of both female and male of each species in order to keep up healthy populations, then that�s what is expected of him. So he might utilize one of these age estimation charts for helping in this management plan to keep an accurate record. The same method could�ve been used to help manage the Kaiser�s game and keep accurate records. We know the Kaiser�s kills were quite extensive to say the least.

Also, If a hunter wants to hunt he must learn the laws and know how to identify many type of animal that lives in the forest and must be proficient in determining the age and sex of these game animals. So mistakes would be very rare. There are ways of telling the age without first checking their teeth before you kill them. One must also learn trophy preparation and tradition. Notice the animals are all laying on their right side, this is tradition. But of course their is more to it and to what one must learn when studying for a license. Best!

I like picture 18/18. �Dang it! You caught me, I give up�.

Thank you Mikee for the great information you have added to this post.

Photograph #29.
REICHSJAGERMEISTER HERMAN GORING PRESENTATION HUNTING HIRSCHFANGER with DOCUMENTS.
This next grouping of documents came with the purchase of a Hirschfanger that is 21 and half inches long. It was presented to Bernhard Keidel from the town of Mauterndorf. Herman Goring had a Castle in Mauterndof. This Hirschfanger was presented to his game master or keeper. I do not know the official title. There are also pages of background that I have no understanding of. I purchased this in 2001 and it has all surfaced while I was going through papers to put on this particular post.
The lettering on the blade is all capital Roman letters. They are gold in color. The makers name on the blade is one I have not seen before. Stamped. ROBERT HERMES in a half circle with the name SOLINGEN. The blade is all a bright chrome color. It has been well carried and the skinning knife looks like a replacement but it is well made.

Photograaph #30.

Photograph #31.

photograph #32.

Photograph #33.

Photograph #34.

Photograph #35.

Phootograph #36.

Photograph #37.

Photograph #38.

Photograph #39.

Photograph #40.

Photograph #41.
Information inside this folder.

Photograph #42.

Photograph #43.
Back cover of folder.

As a hunter; Just a couple of comments on the deer jaws display:
I am assuming that these are progressive showing jaw details from 1 year to 8. The way a deer is aged is to measure the amount of tooth wear and this is routinely done when checking a kill into a station here. Even from these pictures it's apparent that a dramatic change occurs in deer teeth by the eight year. If a deer doesn't expire for some other reason they'll eventually starve to death as there teeth wear past the point of usefullness and they can no longer eat.
A buck past the age of 5 or 6 is a prime trophy but no longer a prime contributor to the herd as their ability to mate also has diminished. The is the reason that younger bucks are passed up at least by hunters who know and understand this.
Jim

Photograph #44.
Pages and pages of printed documents that came with this Hirschfanger that are to many to print.

Ralph,

This post just keeps getting better and better.
What an incredible find, has to be the most well-documented Hirschf�nger I've ever seen. Most of Herr Keidel's forestry-career entirely laid out in black and white.

The books and documents are quite rare and unique, too ... just fantastic!

Mikee-Jim,

Thanks for your additional insights, you guys know your stuff.

Best to all !

Bill

Hubertus,

I am glad I checked this forum today. You certainly have a wonderful Hirschf�nger and the G�ring connection makes this more exciting to me.

Thank you for sharing!

Thank you Jim, Bill and Carinhall for your posts.


ETCHED, EMBOSSED AND ENGRAVED DAGGERS AND OTHER COLLECTABLE ITEMS ARE ALWAYS DESIRABLE TO COLLECTORS.
They enhance the value if certified with providence and add an advantaged presence when displaced with other similar pieces.

You cannot help but guess how a beautiful gold and blue black etch can with stand the time between wars and countries to suddenly come alive for sale? What brings these treasures to the collectors to live again is wonderment in itself. Where was it all these years to stay in such fine condition? The scabbard has a slight time roughness to it and the fittings are saying polish me up so I can show off all of my might but I almost hate to clean anything up any more. You know that there was a gathering and men who where showing their abilities as shooters and there where moments of pride. Then there was a formal presentation of this type of blade. How can you just wipe 75 years away with a cleaning cloth? (I am beginning to sound like Bill Warda)

Photograph #45.

Photograph #46.

Photograph #47.

Photograph #48.

Photograph #49.

Photograph #50

Photograph #51.

Hubertus:
While I don't collect this type of weapon(space limitations among others) the craftmanship that has been put into their creation never ceases to amaze me.
I also wonder with political correctness setting in everywhere and casting a pall over our lives if hunting is still a viable sport in Germany today.
Jim

Jim, I think I can assure you that the hunting is still a major part of the German culture today. My son has traveled to the Black Forest in the past few years with each of my three grandsons to stay with an old hunt master Josef Muller. He has a very nice lodge. Although they were not able to hunt Mr. Muller did take them on tour of the property and had quite a large collection of horns etc. He did make the statement to my son that today it is not anything like it was years ago. My reward for their trip was a bottle of snaps from Mr. Muller. He makes his own brand, the label reads �DEUTSCHES ERZEUGNIS Pictures with a lodge and crests 45 %vol 0,351 SCHWARZWALDER OBSTWASSERLI Landhaus Erdrichshof Josef Muller Oppenau-Locherberg. I am saving part of the bottle to share with Bill Warda should he ever find his way to Florida. Maybe he will tell us what the label says.
Sincerely,
Ralph

Ralph,

That sounds like it would be a great idea to have a drink with you from that bottle ..

Black Forest Fruit-Water, nice!

I'll bet it'll make your socks roll up and down a couple of times! I just might have to take you up on your kind offer ..

Kind thanks!

Bill

Ralph,
Incredible find to say the least and with so much more to learn! I really can�t wait to see what you post next! Although there is a fair amount of protest from organizations that are anti-gun and anti-hunting, I certainly agree with you that hunters in Germany are very much respected as well of course is the much respected Forest Meister. Believe me, Forest Meister�s are incredibly knowledgeable and proficient in every aspect of the forest and have varying high educational degrees in their fields of expertise. Mentioning Forest Meister brings back memories. I remember as a youngster, our dog a young German Sheppard named �Fritz� wondered off the estate for the first time and onto a neighboring preserve. I can still hear the echo of the weapon going off. Very soon after, we were told that the old Forest Meister shot her dead. It took me awhile before I fully understood. I know, Fritz is not a female name but that�s another story.

Anyway, I wanted to post this antler chart and as you can hopefully see, show that one cannot field judge the �accurate� age of a deer �exclusively� on the size of antlers and certainly not by the number of points a deer has. Deer growth and antler size has more to do with genetics and nutrition than anything else. The antlers shown are from the same stag and with much luck when you find antlers in the field, armed with little knowledge it�s possible to match antlers shed by the same deer and although I catch myself calling these Deer horns on occasion, remember these are antlers and not horns, a big difference.

Bill, thanks, far from expert but I�m always learning like every other hunter.

.

Mickee:
I certainly agree with you analysis re. genetics and nutrition but note the antler decline after the 7th year. I believe this is primarily due to old age.
Jim

Mikee, Thank you for the great posts with the antler displays. The whole layouts are a labor of love for the big game hunter.
Attached is a photo of my Hubertus Elk that is in our hunting lodge. Quite a difference in the shape of the American stag and the German.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS