UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum my first SS tunic

Excellent post Grant.I remember Bob Alexanders collection being sold I looked at photos he carried on him at the Great Western just before.I think you are right on spot with your opinion.I know of one collection that was just sold off and some pieces were got reasonable. The more rare items well I think one will just hope fate is on thier side when the time comes.

Fred you have good reason to be suspicious and you have to be very careful choosing something on a dealer site these days.Many collectors fail to take a close enough look for problems. Ive seen tunics shown on the forum that got heaps of praise from the members but when they were sent to me for inspection they had all kinds of tampering evident that I was a bit puzzled that the owners missed it or were unable to detect it.

hi Grant those are some broad and sweeping statements and this road has been crossed before.last time it was you couldn't get a untouched example unless you were willing to spend at least 9-10'000 .now you are saying 4-9range wont get you a untouched at wot end is it that you think it ant real.4-9 its abig sweep.i hear what you are saying at the same time.this one i got from a dealer its named and is in the book we all know i have a large file and photo of this guy i did not pay 15-20 so because i did not pay that an got from a dealer and its in the book of books is this a put to gether.if eny one thinks it is speak up .not looking for a fight just think it was broad view .or am i out of date with the price??would i be asking to much if iasked 15-17000 for this named sd tunic ??kind regards judas

Judas, I think when you read Grants post you will see something else he said that really cuts to the truth.I will lend my view on the same theme.

Big well known dealers are asking the $20,000 or more for the tunics.I was offered on by a famous dealer for $16500,but I felt it wasnt an untouched piece so I was not hot on paying that.I might have paid it if it was clearly untouched with provenance but that wasnt the case.
Now tunics that have been sitting around in collections for years.The collectors may have paid what was top dollar then and thus as Grant says drove the market value up and up due to SS being a popular field.However in the next decade or so when we see these collections open up,probably privately with dealers getting first shake, you may see the true value of these tunics reflected rather than the asking prices of "glamour" dealers.I know of one recently purchased at a price reflecting the late 1980s prices.Untouched, unmessed with and out of an old collection.
Now thats a nice SD tunic you have an obvious one looker.Do you think if you try to sell it for $20,000 someone will pay that and if someone does who would it be and what would thier motives be other than to drive up market value.

thank s johnpic i do see what you are saying i think if you are looking at it like that.the ifs .if and when these old collections turn up you are playing the numbers game this can become very cloudy .how meany real ones are out there. and how grant says he remembers seeing at lest 40 black ones.were are they.as for what i payed first off it wasint cheap and thats in us dollers get on the exchange and see what the usa buys in nz.but i buy these because they have meaning to me when i can afford to.thats very clever of you to put that question back on me john the question is would i sale it? i dont know if i would get that i did not buy it with that in mind and i think it needs to go to some one who loves it .kind regards judas

how many untouched ones are out therejust a rough guess eny one 1000 or so

Okay John et al what about Waffen SS officer visors?? They certainly seem to be as rare if not more so than officer tunics these days. One just sold on Bruce Hermann's site for $10,995.00 and it did not last long at that price. Now I am not casting dispersions as I believe that visor to be 100% and Bruce is a very reputable dealer in my opinion. The last SS officer visor that he sold a year or so ago you John eventually acquired from Kevin. I believe that the price was close to $4000.00. Now it wasn't a double marked Erel but in my opinion it had traits that made it as desireable. Bill Shea currently has one listed at $11,000.00 although in lesser condition. It seems to me that prices for these caps when they appeared over the past year was around $5000.00. They did not appear as often as tunics seemed to, as I remember waiting a few good years for the one that Bruce sold to Kevin to eventually materialize. There was also one being offerred by Keith Beaumont that also just sold, I think for around the $5000.00 mark. Is $8000.00 to $10,000.00 indicative of the true value of these caps now? I think that Waffen NCO visors are now in the $4000.00 to $5000.00 range. Do not Allgemeine officer visors now command $8000.00 to $10,000.00? Have not many of these visors have replaced insignia? Well are the days of $5000.00 Waffen SS officer visors now over? Just throwing it out there comparatively speaking. cheers, Ryan

If I really wanted something bad, I would pay for it.

If someone wants to do it for investment its a game, they pay high but in the end will they be able to sell it for what they paid.Remember there is only one buyer at the end of the day.
That visor on Bruces site came out of an old collection years ago I remember when it was first aquired by a friend of mine from Gordon Mandley along with a couple others.That was in the late 80s.That same friend sold it to another friend for what he felt it was worth about three years ago.Someone now bought it for what they think its worth. But how many people charged the door to buy it? Thats what determines the value really, not what is paid. It was offered to me first,but I chose not to take it.Too much money into something I have less interest in than tunics.
By the way that visor is the famous "thick chincord" visor.It has its place in collector history congrats to the lucky owner its a fine cap.

Judas to answer your question...more than people would like everyone to think,because that justifies ridiculous prices,and less than enough to keep the needs of a community happy.

I cannot add anything about these SS tunics or rank badges, but I do want to add 2 thoughts.

1. As late as the mid 1960's, I saw German men wearing WWII uniform items with insignia removed. I remember one particular guy who worked for the GI garbage contractor in Worms. He had been a junior NCO in the SS and wounded on the Russian Front. He wore his tunic on cool days and his greatcoat when it was really cold. He spoke some English and used to stop by our Orderly Room to get free coffee and tell war stories. He pointed at the shadows and loops on his tunic and named what had once been there. I remember seeing many ex-military coats beeing worn in winter.

2. I would be surprised if ANY tunics did not show some signs of removal and addition of items. Take the unitorm jacket hanging in my closet. It had different sets of stripes sewn on and removed and 4 different left shoulder patches. The collar brass, regimental insigia, and qualification badges changed several times and were removed for polishing dozens of time. It was also re-fitted when I lost weight after Basic Training. I can assure you that it is genuine despite evidence of having been "meesed with"

Dave

Hi John yes it was and is a fine cap. dave you are 100% When people begin to dismiss tunics because of added or missing insignia it is a terrible thing. Tunics are genuinely modified and added to more so in wartime when things are lean. I was also in the armed forces for 10 years and during that time my rank changed twice as did my weight. I had 2 different service dress, one parade tunic and three combat uniforms. The evidence of "tampering" was wide spread. cheers, Ryan

Moving and changing of insignias and or alterations is not so bothersome.But...evidence of heer insignias,white thread that glows used in stitching the sleeve linings in,wrongly placed insignias,repairs made to ageing defects,all make me uncomfortable.

Greetings all,

Firstly I must say that this has been one informed interesting thread that I've been watching with great importance.Excellent detail and sound positive discussion focusing on the reasons in looking for original SS tabs and not just dismissing something as a fake without any explanation like some other threads on this forum have done , but teaching as to why.
It's the sort of discussion that's required on the forum these days where new collectors can learn why a collar tab is real or fake.

Secondly ,I had a tunic like that years ago without the collar tabs only with a sleeve eagle and it was a pearler.

I have probably seen a good 4 to 5 tunics down here with two of them having the tabs on the collar many years ago.Never the less they looked ok to me at the time remembering that the internet was not here back then and detail knowledge like this didn't exist.

Well done guys.
I applaud you.

Cheers
NCO

I agree with you whole heartedly on those areas of concern John, cheers, Ryan