UBB.threads Forums General Interest Other Hobbies and Collections, like sports cars, movies, music,etc 1850-1890 Antique German Lithopane Regimental Stein

Hi Everyone!

My outstanding father (WWII hero and German millitaria enthusiast) left us a collection of steins and from my thorough research and an appraiser I have deduced that this is an Antique 1850-1890 Commerative Imperial German Army 16 Infantry Regimental Porcelain Lithopane Stein with a pewter steeple lid made of a three part mold with a lion foot that stands for Bavaria. It is 10 inches or so high.

The lithopane is of a Bavarian soldier holding a bayonette and reaching his arm up and holding the hand of a woman leaning over a balcony of an inn, bar, or something like it. She could be a bar maid due to her bonnet and blouse. There is also a house or church in the distance and I believe the moon or sun over head.

At the top of the stein it reads 16. Inf.- Rgt.,, Grokherz. Ferdinand v. Toskana 11. Comp. 99/1901 Passan. It has a crest that is outlined in orange and has a dark blue rectangle with a gold lion with a crown in the upper left corner. There is another rectangle that looks like a flag with white on the bottom in the shape of mountains and red above it in the same shape like upside down mountains in the upper right corner. In the lower left corner it has diagonal lines of red and white with an orange line going straight down the center. In the lower right corner it is like a white flag with a light blue lion with a crown inside of it. Lastly in the very center of the crest there are light blue and white diagonal diamond shapes inside of another crest inside the crest. On top of the whole crest is a gold crown.

At the bottom of the crest lay a black helmut with gold in the center, powder keg, shovel, pick, canteen, leather bags and a couple of other things I can not make out.

There is a main larger soldier dressed in a royal blue uniform holding his black helmut with something gold in the center in his left hand possibly waving it in the air and 6 other smaller soldiers in the same uniform doing various things including sitting in front of a fire possibly cooking to the left of the centered crest.

To the right of the centered crest there is one main larger soldier in full royal blue uniform and black helmut with a rifle over his left shoulder and back of his neck sticking straight up in the air. The same soldier has a burly thick mustache that is curled on the ends.

To the right of that soldier there are 6 more soldiers with one way in the background and barely noticeable and another shooting his rifle (target shooting?) while 3 watch and/or are joining in and the last soldier having a sword pointing towards the ground in his right hand also watching the target shooting.

It is hard to read the writing but I believe the words "Boch Leben bie ersten Reservisten im 20. Jahrhundert!" is above the crest. Just below that right side above the crest going around the top of the crown is "In Treue fest." Below the far left soldier with helmut up in the air is I believe "Errinnerung an" and on the other side under the soldier with the rifle behind his neck and the ones target shooting I believe it says "meines Diensrzeir" and the words are on something that looks like an open scroll of paper.

The front of the bottom base has a name which I believe is "Karl Federholzer." The back of the bottom base has I believe a name and address that I can not totally make out, but this is what I think I have made out, "K. Reischubod, Munchen, Dachauerstr. 151."

There also seems to be roughly 64 names written in single file on either side of the stein handle. Some have quotation " marks infront of them and others have "Uffz." "Inf." "Of." "Def or Gef?" and also two of the names seem to have a couple letters that are painted darker.

The letters "DRM" are painted on the lower left corner of the picture of the soldier near the soldiers cooking over the flame almost hidden inside of the grass. There is more writing over the left side picture of soldiers that I believe says, "Soier lake uns raffen und ruh'n Der Folren wird seine schuldigkeif Fzun." and more writing over the right side picture of the soldiers that I believe says, "Es darf uns nichis a m leben hegen, Iben es gilf den feind zu beliegen." There is nothing on the bottom of this lovely lithophane porcelain stein.

This is what the appraiser also wrote and I was wondering if any of you could validate it for me, because I don't quite understand all of it. I was also wondering if anyone could give me a better idea of the year the stein was made rather than the 40 year period of 1850-1890, the maker, and what the words mean LOL! ;-).

"You have a very nice antique lithopane stein. Lithopanes are pictures made in porcelain with clay in layers of different thicknesses, so that one can see a picture when the piece is held up to the light. Germany and France produced most of the antique lithopane steins found today. Yours is German. Porcelain must be used for lithopanes because it is translucent and allows light and shadow to be seen through it. The lid and handle are pewter. Most German lithopane steins were made between 1825 and 1875 or thereabouts, in the Dresden area. Decoration on your stein suggests manufacture sometime between 1850 and 1890. Lithopanes were made with various themes, and yours is a regimental type. The decoration appears to relate to commemorating history which is complex in austria/hungary/germany: By the 1300s Emp. Frederick I Barbarossa held five imperial diets in Wuerzburg as it was by then called... and it was here he married in 1156 to Beatirce of Burgunday. He also raised the Bishops to the rank of Dukes of Franconia. Conrad von Querfurt built a massive keep which became the corner of the castle of the burghers... The Prince-Bishops of the House of Schoenborn built a great number of structures... Formerly bishopric. Member of the Catholic corpus at the Peace of Westphalia (1648). 1802-1803 the territory was seculatized under Bavaria. 1806 - 1814 it is stated it was held by the Hapsburgs of Austria (Grand Duke Ferdinand of Tuscany (Grand Duchy of Toscana). In 1814 "absorbed" by Bavaria.

The decoration on the stein is detailed and colorful, which enhances value. Steins of more than 10 inches in height fetch the highest prices. The slight wear around the base color doesn't effect the values."

If you need more photos please email me at chase1817@comcast.net. I will be happy to provide all the photos you need ;-)

THANKS again for all your kindness, patience, and great expertise!!!!

Warm regards,

Lesley

Photo of lion foot

Photo of back of stein and handle.

Photo of inside lithopane. The brown spots are due to a need for a little light cleaning.

Writing of owner(?) and their address(?) on bottom of back of stein.

Last photo for now of the pewter steeple lid and its design.

If the years of service are not shown it would not be a true regimental. I would guess it at between 1897 or 1898 not any earlier. The top would make it no earlier than that. These filials are seen on steins with the service years 1897-1900. Also the maker on the bottom would date it even a little later than that. A nice desirable stein. Shame it does not show the actual service years. I have a feeling they are showing. If so please show them to us. Prosit...your SteinMeister.

I am sorry I just saw the service years...that is the year it was issued...1899-1901. I guessed that without seeing the date first. This regimental stein was issued to the reservist on his leaving the barracks in 1901.
Roland.

I was looking at the pictures and didnt realize you had the date in the write up. When you take pics of regimentals they should alwyas show the name, years of service and garrison.
Very nice stein...if you can find some one who collects that particular regiment...it could bring $250.00. The later years between 1904-1914...the taller steins bring much more in good condition.
Again, Prosit!

Roland~

I thought it was a 1901 too from the writing that says "99/1901 Passan," but the online appraiser at what its worth told me that I was incorrect. So, I am correct? It is from 1901? What else from the info that the I included about what the appraiser wrote was possibly incorrect? I'd be grateful for your expertise!

Also, I am curious why they issued this Regimental Stein "to the reservist on his leaving the barracks in 1901"? I'd appreciate any info. Was the owner named "Karl Federholzer" since it is the name on the front of the base of the stein? And what does the The back of the info on the bottom back of the base that I believe states, "K. Reischubod, Munchen, Dachauerstr. 151." mean?

I am not going to sell it because for $250, I'd rather keep my father's memories, however, I'd sure like to know more about it and what the Bavarian words mean! ;-)

Warm regards,

Lesley Barton

It is from 1901? YES. DRESDEN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A STEIN HAVING A LITHOPAYNE. YOUR 'APPRAISER' IS AN EXCELLENT EAMAPLE OF 'A LITTLE LEARNING IS A DANGEROUS THING'. THEY KNOW A LITTLE BUT NOT A LOT.

Also, I am curious why they issued this Regimental Stein "to the reservist on his leaving the barracks in 1901"?
'THEY' DIDN'T, IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE RESERVIST HIMSELF AT HIS OWN EXPENSE. IT WAS MADE AVALIABLE TO HIM TOWARD THE END OF HIS ENLISTMENT TIME.

Was the owner named "Karl Federholzer" since it is the name on the front of the base of the stein? YES.

And what does the The back of the info on the bottom back of the base that I believe states, "K. Reischubod, Munchen, Dachauerstr. 151." mean? THAT IS THE NAME OF THE COMPANY WHO DECORATED THE STEIN WITH THEIR ADDRESS IN MUNICH. THE STREET IS THE ROAD THAT LEADS TO THE TOWN OF DACHAU WHERE THE WW2 CONCENTRATION CAMP WAS (IS) LOCATED.

I am not going to sell it because for $250, I'd rather keep my father's memories, however, I'd sure like to know more about it and what the Bavarian words mean! ;-) LATER STEINS COMMAND MORE VALUE AS THEY USUALLY HAVE LIDS WITH FINIALS THAT INCLUDE EAGLES, SOLDIERS, CANNONS, AND OTHER ATTRACTIVE MILITARY DEPICTIONS.

good moring Texas...if I implied that they were "Issued" then I was wrong...they were bought by the indiviual soldiers...usually right after basic training a salesman would come to a nearby tavern and show the recruits at that time what he had available...some paid a monthly instalment, and at the end of their three year enlistment the salesperson would wait for them outside of the barracks with his horsedrawn buggy were the steins were packed boxes filled with straw. At least that was my granfathers experience. Strictly anecdotal here.
Some of the fellow decided on pipes, wiskey flasks or even china. Some, the teetotalers of course, went home without any commenorative items. Knowing the Germans of that period I have a hard time imagening that. With the expeption of my granma, who smashed ours, in an effort to get the pewter for WWII. So much for my 14th Infantry Regimental that my granfather had.
smile,
Roland.

quote]their three year enlistment[/quote]
Most, but not all of the enlistments were for two (2) years. The enlistment for mounted individuals such as Hussars, Uhlans, Dragoons and the like were for three (3) years with the first year being closely associated with training with the horses. The second and third years were then more pointed toward using and working with the horses in their assigned military role. While you may see a fixed fortification artillery stein with two years of service, a horse drawn artillery unit might been seen for three years of service. Far less often encountered are steins for only a single year (1) of service. Either these guys had some ‘pull’ or more often they were used for their existing technical expertise that was already learned and was needed in civilian life. They were then lightly trained in military life and were used to train military troops in their already existing area of expertise.

You are all such amazing and kind wealths of information!!! I must admit that I am very disapointed in the appraiser. He seemed nice in his post at whats it worth, but he obviously did not know what he was writing about. I should have come here first; I don't know why I didn't. I guess because I had other things outside of the German Militaria community that I was having appraised, but to be honest, they've done a bad job on basically everything I have sent to them. I kind of wish I could get my money back. Oh well.

I am so grateful to you all!!!!!!!!!!

Warmly,

Lesley