UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Double Etched Luftwaffe Dagger Review

houston i believe you can add alcoso and smf to the group, let me try and find some stored photos

quote:

Originally posted by NoBoZoS:
Nolan

If you bought from Steve then you should be safe. He has nice daggers and is a very knowledgeable collector.

That was a tongue in cheek post, never had any worries over it, it featured in a forum topic when Steve had it, along with an etched army which I also got off him, both got a glowing reception from the GDC crowd at the time, must be at least 5 or 6 years ago.

Nolan

OH...I was being sincere...purchased one of the nicest Heer daggers I owned from Steve....but now its gone on to another collector....sigh...

Yeah I reckon we've all done it at one time or another, you think you need the money for something else, then when a treasured piece has gone you realise you really didn't, I must be high on the list for doing that, when i think of the things that have come and gone

Not seen any posts from Steve for a long time now


Nolan

quote:

Originally posted by stirnpanzer:
It would be great if people posted pics of fake etch's from their archives.
It would then create a benchmark of reference to compare to those in T.W.'s Book.

And a also an Eickhorn etch for comparison. If anyone has one.
As Houston has stated they existed...but are rare.
As this etch is greatly different from the classic "Text book" voos type etch.

Mark

Hi,

I was hoping the experts could post some photos from their archives.
To prove their statements that this is fake, and not an unmarked eickhorn etch.

This was meant to be an educational thread for all

Please bring on the pictures.....

Mark

Mark,

I will post close up pics of an original Luft unmarked Voos when I get home tonite and we will see the difference.

Hi Pat,

I know what the textbook voos ones look like....

I want to see repro etches.
And particularly an Eickhorn etch...

Mark

Sorry, mistunderstood your question and I don't collect faked Voos style blade.

Mr Nolan,

Steve pried that dagger from me with an offer I couldn't refuse.

I must say that I have not seen a nicer one.

quote:

Originally posted by Bernie Brule:
Mr Nolan,

Steve pried that dagger from me with an offer I couldn't refuse.

I must say that I have not seen a nicer one.

Hi Bernie, I had to do likewise to get it off him, he didn't have it very long, it is a beauty! You did tell me how you came across it

Nolan

quote:

Originally posted by stirnpanzer:

quote:

Originally posted by stirnpanzer:
It would be great if people posted pics of fake etch's from their archives.
It would then create a benchmark of reference to compare to those in T.W.'s Book.

And a also an Eickhorn etch for comparison. If anyone has one.
As Houston has stated they existed...but are rare.
As this etch is greatly different from the classic "Text book" voos type etch.

Mark

Hi,

I was hoping the experts could post some photos from their archives.
To prove their statements that this is fake, and not an unmarked eickhorn etch.

This was meant to be an educational thread for all

Please bring on the pictures.....

Mark

I think the deafening silence from the two experts speaks Volumes.

Surely they would keep a copy in their archives of a bad Eichhorn etch...
To substantiate their rock solid claims.

I'm sorry but this type etch is so obviously a fake to me ,and I'm sure others also, that we don't need to keep any reference photos of it. Photos of original Eickhorn etches can be found in Wittmann's books so why keep photos of them?
It's like a fake Himmler RZM etch-who needs a photo of that?
So IMO the lack of quick at hand photos of obvious fakes means nothing. Those "volumes" you speak of all are full of blank pages-you don't need a book to call "a spade a spade"

The piece is so BADDDD it isn't worth the time spent here on commenting in my opinion. Even Eickhorn unmarked pieces (I have one with the trainer in center in my bank storage-can't get to it as it is corporate tax time for me now) and these are shown in Wittmann's book easily show how bad this one is in comparison.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

The fact that this etch doesn't appear in any of the trusted references is also deafening, in addition to the valid opinions of the esteemed experts. Perhaps it would be useful then if you could provide some concrete proof that this etch is genuine.

check the etch in T.W's book on Army daggers pages 139-141.

Surely its possible that Eichorn also did a luft one.

Looking at the etch quality & pattern only ...

Tell me the inconsitancies...in the etch.

Mark

I understand your assessment based on the similar features of the etch style. However,

1. this is an army dagger
2. the eagles are dissimilar
3. this blade on the army is marked Eickhorn with all Eickhorn fittings. The Luft you show appears to be a have WKC fittings, at least a WKC scabbard.

IMO, in addition to all the other comments (50+ years of experience) and references, it is difficult to conclude beyond doubt that the etch is genuine.

First thing I must say is that I have no affinity to either party in this matter and having bought from Craig Gottlieb in the past can only say he is , so far as I'm concerned a 100% top notch lad. So I've brought this back up because of;
a/ what has been said already regarding Voos 'style' etching's and
b/ the Holler unplated example now for sale on Craig's site.

I have just brought this back up for interest and discussion only as much was previously said about unplated Voos style etches and to start the topic off I will say that there are obvious differences between the two examples.

Nolan

In his write-up it says Holler but the pictures show a horester mark? I can not comment on that dagger but that Holler navy has me scratching my head? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but I don�t like the looks of it. Scabbard doesn�t look right -the detail of the pommel is poor-doesn�t have the typical Holler bands or grip wire-Blade etch doesn�t look like a Holler look at the end of the etch toward the crossguard and compare it to another Holler? I am out in left field here?
http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=2543...C+Gorgeous+Condition

The pictures show a Horster maker mark, but his description sez Holler, a typo.

John

I may be wrong on this but, I thought he(Craig) had someone else doing the listings and photo work for him now?
Bret Van Sant

I have seen this navy already yesterday, it�s description is "Holler blade is perfect" and shown in pic 019 clearly a H�LLER mark is shown.
What�s the matter with H�RSTER???
BTW when downloaded this certain dagger I personally marked it "somehow suspect" according to my thoughts which hve been about the same like WW2-Coll had. Regards,

BTW, Tom sent you an email also, check that!Bret

I think WW2 collector posted the wrong link,nats

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=2552...fe+with+Etched+Blade

http://www.stan-the-man.tk/

Gentlemen:

What do you have to say, good or bad, about the above Horster etch?

John

Sorry for the confusion I was talking about the navy I had linked I will start a new topic on it.

With all the controversy surrounding the previous example shown by Mark and comment's about 'unplated' etched blades, I'm surprised at the lack of comment over this one. I wouldn't presume to even think about buying it without the blessing of our resident experts, but if it is real then it's one very nice dagger at a very good price. I love etched examples but have always shied away from thing's that are not textbook as they may prove difficult to pass on when the time comes.
Craig's no crook, but he says he's never seen a similar example, so c'mon expert's, you had plenty to say about the other one, let's have some views.

Nolan

Nolan,

I'm not surprised by the lack of comments.

Perhaps some "experts" don�t like to crap in their own backyard....

As this one contradicts what the "experts" have been saying.

I don�t know if it's good or bad, but its not the Voos or Eickhorn style etch.

There are always exceptions to the rule...
But if some "experts" haven't had it or seen it... it isn�t real.

I was interested to see the comment by someone selling an unmarked army in the for sale section:
"No TM. Probably bought in a uniform shop." a convenient comment when they are selling it.

I wonder if someone walked into a "uniform shop" and said "can i have one with a fancy blade ...?"
I'm sure the "uniform shop" keeper would only have been to happy to oblige, at an extra cost...

"Would sir like an Ivory handle at another xx rm ?" ... No I�ll just have the normal handle...

I look forward to further comments....

Mark

When a piece that has never been encountered before by the collecting community appears it sometimes is difficult to tell if it is authentic. Quality is the best rule of thumb.
Recently, a number of Voos pattern and Voos marked blades have appeared-unplated and of a lower quality etch-less detail and rather shallow, but better reproductions than we have seen in the past. Most agree they are reproductions. We might have been fooled by these, thinking them to be late manufacture but--as always-they made too many.
This Horster type has not been seen before. It seems to be of very high quality--So--IMO it is either a new improved reproduction or a very rare original.I see nothing wrong with it from what I can see in the photos. How will we know? They never make just one. If these start popping up all over we will know. If they don't we will also know. Since it is warranted original there is no risk.
Uniform shops provided almost any type of edged weapon available for over the counter sales. Many had unmarked blades. An ivory grip? Certainly. MANY fine originals have no TM.
As far as the Luftwaffe etch that is the subject of this thread-IMO it is obviously a reproduction. Not because the blade is unplated although that is a red flag, but because of the very low quality. I can't believe anyone experienced in collecting daggers, would consider it to be anything other than a poor fake.
There are always those who won't listen.