UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Strange youth knife, not German

mm

motto

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Size compared to standard HJ

Finally, I xrayed it. It appears the emblem is fit into the grip, but no prongs. There does appear to be some open space beneath the emblem.

the badge of the “Jeugdstorm” in two forms

Congratulations John. Very impressive HJ collection. Will look good next to all those NPEA's.

Thanks for those detailed pics. Great looking ensemble you have there!

Thanks Christopher for the Jeugdstorm pin pictures, very nice. Let me know if you have any extras to sell, I'd like to have one to go with the knife. I looked for one at the SOS, but no luck. Edwin, maybe you could find me a pin to buy?

OK, Ron brought his knife to the SOS, and in person, there is no doubt these are twins made by the same company. Here's 2 pictures, the best I could do with no tripod or light tent.

rev

John, Thanks for showing it to me at the SOS.

It is wonderful piece exibiting all the qualities one would expect once you see it in hand.

Nice score. Congrats!

-serge-

That was a good free randal knife huh!
Bret Van Sant

Is it then acceptable for the grip inset not to have the pronged attachment as on HJ knives or do we not know at this time? Charlie

Hey Serge, it was good to meet you at the SOS, you had some awesome daggers for sale!

Bret, yes, I'm quite please with how it all worked out...took 20 plus years to find one.

Charlie, as far as I can tell, the standard way of assembling these did not involve prongs. I suspect for such a low production item, they used emblems provided by the Dutch, which were likely the stick pins without the pin attached. Just a theory. I would be happy to xray Ron's example, or anyone else who has one, to further evaluate the theory.
I would also be interested in buying a Dutch stick pin if anyone has one available.

John

OK, I was lucky enough to find another example on eBay. This one has quite a bit more wear, but matches the other 2 examples in construction. There is some enamel missing on this one.

rev

Same stripes in the grips.

The most recent acquisition is a little earlier based on the number A317. Notice the stamping of the letter A looks identical.

Snaps, inside of the male side.

snaps, female side. Marked with the letters S H B then maybe o v o separated by dashes.

This compares the 2 enamel emblems. The top one has more wear, and has worn down the metal giving it a fatter, less precise appearance.

I looked through my kids bag of crayons, found one the right color, and melted it to fill in for the missing enamel. Looks much better, yet easily reversible.

Close up showing repair.

Well done John. It is a great improvement.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Congratulations John, with this 2 great knifes!

Very smart of you to buy a second one, now you have the proof that both are original!

I was wrong and you were right on the first one when it appeared here.

Best greetings,

Herman

Well done John, very nice fix on the emblem.

I notice that the grip plates look like artificial Ivory and seem hand finished, I also notice that the fit is not to great, is this the case generally on this type of knife, my reason for asking is that I have a hunting dagger with a similar material and it also is not the best fit. Just like to hear some thoughts on these points.

Cheers

Gary

Thanks Guys.
Gary, I think the grip material is like you say, artificial ivory of some sort, as the grips look the same on all of these. If it was real ivory, it would look different piece to piece, and probably have age cracks like the real ivory dagger grips. Whatever it is, it seems to have shrunk to a degree over the last 60+ years.

John

I did finally find an original stick pin to go with the daggers. The color is very close.

Pin close up

At the 2009 SOS, I bought another Dutch HJ, this time the 3rd pattern. It sure was nice to have Ron Weinand at the show to consult with before the purchase. This 3rd pattern has no enamel emblem in the grip, and the rivets are larger and made of aluminum.

The motto is a different font, and is missing the comma.

rev

The grip still has the lines of the artificial Ivory.

As pointed out before, the grip of the 3rd type is smaller, yet the blade is a little bit longer, such that the overall length is very similar.

Spine comparison.

Comparison

Ron Weinand forwarded to me some correspondence from a collector in Holland, and I hope he doesn't mind me posting it. I did my best with different translation programs, and came up with the translation. Of course, if someone fluent in the language could translate it precisely, that would be nice.

Jeugdstorm dolkje

Betreft de dolk:
In het kort, komt het er op neer, dat er drie opdrachten zijn geweest om de dolkjes te maken, de 1e 2 (A en B-serie) schat men op ca. 1200-1400/serie dus totaal 2400-2800 stuks.
Kon. Begeer maakte de emaile meeuwtje en die werden of bij Eickhorn of door thuiswerkers in Duitsland of in Nederland er in geplaatst.
de 3e serie (met C gemerkt, bijv. C127) is een late productie en daar ontbreekt het emaille meeuwtje EN er is een taalfout gemaakt, er staat NIET Moed, Eer en Trouw maar "Moed Eer en Trouw", ofwel de komma achter "Moed" ontbreekt. Veel verzamelaars EN handelaren denken daardoor, dat dit een kopie is, maar dat is absoluut niet zo. er zijn van de C-serie ca. 200-400 stuks gemaakt. Totaal wordt het aantal op een kleine 2600-3200 stuks geschat. Verder mag er op de kling uitsluiten het firmateken van C. Eickhorn uit de periode 1935-1940 op staan.


Of een dolkje goed of kopie is, is uiteraard alleen te beoordelen door zeer goede foto's of persoonlijk in de hand. Maar de 70-iger of 80-iger jaren kopieën die door Winters rotterdam en een andere kornuit van hem zijn gemaakt, ca. 100 stuks, zijn zeer makkelijk herkenbaar, doordat de ivoorkleurige heften GEEN grijze streepjes (imitatie van ivoor) hebben. Blijkbaar kan men nu deze speciale kunststofsamenstelling niet meer maken of alleen tegen dergelijk hoge prijzen dat dit voor Jantje niet interessant was.

Je weet, dat de stormers de dolkjes weer in moesten leveren en deze vervolgens aan terugkerende Oostfrontstrijders werden uitgereikt?


Youth Storm Dagger

Concerning the dagger: In short, it comes down to that three tasks have been to daggers to make the first two (A and B series) it is estimated at around 1200-1400/series thus total 2400-2800 pieces. It is possible the conversion by placing the enamel gulls took place at Eickhorn or people working from home in Germany or in the Netherlands. Third series (with C seen, for example C127) is a late production and there is lacking the enamel gull AND there is a language mistake, there is NOT Courage, Honor and Faithful but "Courage and Honor and Faithful’, the comma after "Courage" is missing. Many collectors and dealers believe that this is a copy, but that is absolutely not true. There are the C-series about 200-400 pieces made. Total is the number of small pieces 2600-3200 estimated. Furthermore, on the blade to exclude the firm sign of C. Eickhorn from the period 1935-1940 on it.
Whether a dagger is good or copy is of course only to be assessed by very good photographs or personally in the hand. But the 70-ish or 80-ish years before the copies by Winters of Rotterdam and another buddy of his were made, approximately 100 pieces are easily recognizable because the ivory-colored handles have NO gray stripes typical of imitation ivory. Apparently one can no longer make plastic composition like this due to high prices, making it of no interest.

Do you know that the Stormer daggers again had to be issued to the then returning Eastern fighters?

Excellent thread, John thanks for sharing!!