UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum PSS (Polizei Seitengewehr Sonderausfuhrung)

That acronym PSS always gets bayonet collectors' attention. I didn't think much of them the first time I saw one in a picture but that was a while ago and I had a lot to learn. Since seeing one in the flesh I was instantly hooked.

I picked up my first, a mint example, several years ago and have looked since then to find one of equal or better condition. I think I succeeded. This one, maker marked "Deutsche Faschinenfabrik AG Duisburg" is the first of any edged weapon I've seen with this mark.


Great stag grip plates with no wear or damage.
The pommel etching is crisp as is the crossguard etch. The blade is mirror bright with no spots, rust, pits, etc. The scabbard retains nearly 100% of it's original anodized surface and has absolutely no dents whatsoever. I don't know if the internal springs have WaA marks, I don't want to skew the scabbard by removing the throat since it's on there pretty good.

Not sure if this piece was issued but if it was, it wasn't carried long, that's for sure.

Here's a nice picture showing the pommel detail.

Here's one of the obverse crossguard etch.

One of the reverse crossguard with maker's mark

Reverse pommel etch

Scabbard obverse, no defects at all. One thing that really hits you when examining one of these pieces is the overall quality of these pieces. I can see why the 3R would have discontinued them based on the presumed level of work it must have taken to fabricate one of these. This piece really is heavy in hand and a nice solid unit.

Grip eagle, almost forgot. I'll have to get a clearer one of this shot, the adler has nice crisp detail.

Wow! I always wanted one of these...

Billy G, congratulations to your find. I do appreciate these kind of bajonets so much that I do own two of them. A MAUSER (!) and a HENKEL. and I know also a best conditioned no maker mark in a collection.
Can you show a closeup of the maker mark as I think it correctly should read "...Maschinenfabrik..."(= factory of machines) and not "Faschinenfabrik". I think perhaps part-stamping led to this error?

Nice goin' Billy! I'm still looking for my first one.
Best Regards....

Hallo Wotan,

I'm sure you're quite right about the missing letter in the stamping. I think it was my more than obvious love for the feuerwehr faschinenmesser that contributed to the error I killed my batteries last night snapping a ton of pictures of this and a few other pieces that arrived yesterday. I was able to invert the picture and I think you can make out where the letter in the second word is missing, probably from a lighter than average strike by the fellow stamping the mark.

Hi Denny,

Thanks man, I'm pretty happy with it myself although I think I'm just a touch more partial to the Hartkopf I found a while ago. This one is actually a bit better, the scabbard has no depressions at all, certainly no dents or anything.

Even though I have a lot of dress bayonets, and as hard as this sounds if I had to pitch them all and keep just one, it would be a PSS. Not to worry, they are out there and you'll get lucky, I'm sure of it. This is my second so I'm sure there's one with your name on it.

Billy,

An excellent example of a textbook PSS bayonet. Most certainly the missing letter was simply polished off by the armorer when the blade was re-shaped and polished prior to plating it. This is common on refurbished bayonets. Collectors should not lose sight of the fact that this bayonet started out life as a S98/05. You will also see the original Imperial markings deliberately removed on the spine of the blade on some of these PSS and you will see them left in place on other examples. It appears from the photographs that part of the original Imperial inspection mark is still on the back of the pommel above the lug catch.

Congratulations on an excellent, and absolutly original, example.

George

I can only accompany what ORPO states, I think this refurbishing is also the reason for the one I know without any maker mark.
These bajonets are quite rare and searched after.
Thank you for showing it.

Hi George,

Thanks for your observations, and as I expected, you're quite right. The blade spine has the remnants of the original Imperial inspection marks. Much of the maker mark appears deep while other letters such as those in the direct center, The M in "Maschinenfabrik", the A in "AG" and the D in Duisburg all appear much lighter than the letters on the flanks of the mark which have been.

Also of interest, the number 192 is stamped and visable on the top of the mortise key as it leaves the pommel when the button is pushed.

Although I haven't seen very many of these bayonets, I don't believe I've ever seen a duplicate maker mark, they've all been different. You know many of us collectors are more appropriately termed addicts when we find minutiae like this so exciting and interesting.

I would be interested to see how many forum members have a PSS in their collections and how many of those PSSs have unit markings.

Billy,

It would certainly be good information to see if anyone has a PSS with an identifiable unit marking, or serial number, on the back of the guard, the blade ricasso, or the scabbard. Mine is just as Wotan describes in that the maker marking has been polished off prior to plating. Interestingly, the original Imperial inspection markings and date were left intact on the spine of the blade. No unit markings or serial number on this one. Look on the blade ricasso for a stamped serial number as well. Anyone with a PSS with a unit marking or serial number to report?

George

I do have in my files PSS bajonets of OHLIGER, DÜRKOPP, HENKEL and NO MAKER. Mine are of MAUSER and HERDER (sorry I first thought of HENKEL) and I know another NO MAKER. None of it does have any unit markings.
But I think to remember that a member of GD.C (Bob Hritz?, Houston Coates?) has a "Tr #" marked PSS bajonet which he once has shown here.

Have looked through old files and found that Houston Coates once has mentioned that he has had a PSS with the (unidentified ?) "Tr" marking.

Billy G:
First, there is a paucity of PSS blades out here on the Left Koast.
I have never had the opportunity of finding one for sale out here, let alone seeing one on display!
I do believe, they were never allowed to pass Westward from those grasping hands back East!
Secondly, I must congratulate you on the finest PSS specimen I have ever seen, picturewise.
Feel free to send it out for a swap on any of my 98k's...HA!
That scabbard is immaculate.
Thanx for the pictures.
Jax

Billy

Nice piece, the ones I have seen had plating loss. I would have to take out a loan to buy one of those.

TK

Collector to Collector Militaria advertises on this site, they have a PSS for sale that has matching issue marks.

Luc

Hi Jack,

How're things out there? I hate to say it but I actually imported this piece from Kalifornia It's not easy, they are too many people looking to scoop these up. I think this example is pretty sweet in itself, my photographic skills are notoriously poor. Time for a remedial class methinks. Many thanks for the kind words though.

Hi Terry,

I have to see if I can find one for you and I'll be honest, your rare and beautiful fire bayonets are quite the bait.

Luc,

You're quite right, Bob's PSS on Collector to Collector Militaria is a nice one with a lot going for it, WKC maker marked and unit marked as well.

The PSS marks I've observed so far:
Gebruder Hartkopf/Walter & Co, Mühlhausen
JA Henckels/Frister & Rossmann, Berlin
Deutsche Maschininfabrik
Dürkoppwerk (sp?)
E&F Horster
WKC

Here's a pic of the other love of my life, a PSS from Gebruder Hartkopf. The white frog and knot were later affectations.

Billy G:
I am in the process of arrangeing for a "Hitman" to take care of that Kalifornian that sold you the PSS!
How dare he send it OUT-OF-STATE?
Is there no loyalty left in this world?
Actually, if anyone deserved this beauty, it is you Billy, to go with all your other beauties...it is in good company.
Especially with that other PSS that you've shown us...another beauty.
But the "Hit" still stands!
Jax

Polizist,

I looked at the bayonet on Collector to Collector and it seems to be marked "S.H.69" on the crossguard. The other markings shown, such as the matching "S.Br.I.164" are on another regular bayonet and not on this PSS. I don't know why the photos are mixed up, but "S.H.69" seems to be the marking on the PSS.

These markings correspond with the Prussian Police markings for the Schutzpolizei Hannover. These markings were authorized under both the 1922 and the 1932 Vorschriften für die Polizei Preussens. This seems to show that this PSS was issued to the Hannover Police and not to a SS unit as has been proposed for years. If Houston has a PSS with yet another marking, it seems clear that these bayonets were, as stated in offical police nomenclature, simply another "special police bayonet" instead of being related to the SS in any way; no matter how sexy that may sound to affect the price.

George

I have one of the P.S.S.reworks of a Henkel bladed Akt.Ges.vorm.Frister & Rossmann, as well as a Fichtel & Sachs/Schweinfurt.

George, I have to wonder whether the marking S.H.69 on that WKC P.S.S. mentioned is really a remnant of the S98/05 marking. These P.S.S. were reworked well after the 1937 order to cease property markings on police equipment. I now feel the same about the "Tr." marking on the one that Houston owned.

Joe,

You are correct that these markings should not have been placed on these bayonets after 1937. I had not considered that they may be remnant markings. That is possible.

The fact is, that is really what most of these markings were on the reworked standard police bayonets that were shortened for the nationalized police. It is just possible that this "S.H." marked PSS bayonet started out life as a Hannover S98/05. We do know that not all the old markings were removed from these reworked PSS as has been discussed. It is no different from any other Prussian marked long clamshell that was reworked into a shortened police bayonet with the clamshell removed. We presume that these bayonets were reworked and returned to, or remained in, the stores of the various police agencies, as they were the property of those police agencies and the marks were not cancelled. It is possible that this particular Hannover PSS was simply reworked and returned to the Hannover Police stores in the same manner as all the other property marked bayonets were.

Good thinking! I do not see any good argument against this marking being a remnant. Although, it could also have been newly applied by a Hannover Police armorer who simply wanted to mark the weapon when he received it or reworked it himself.

The one thing that I am certain of is that the PSS is a police bayonet and was not something issued to any SS unit. All this nonsense seems to have begun with the PSS designation and a misunderstanding of the meaning of Polizei-Seitengewehr Sonderausfuhrung. Anything that has two Ss together seems to ring the cash register.

George

Can anyone direct me to the Collector to Collector website ? I wish to take a look at the PSS. Many thanks.

Keith

Keith, that dealer website is listed under the advertisers of this forum. It appears to be a nice P.S.S., though I would question an Exc+ condition designation for a bayonet with a sharpened blade and dented scabbard.As George pointed out, there is a non P.S.S. image or two attached to the ad that is a bit confusing.

George, my comment on the remnant unit marking in no way endorses any "SS" association of the P.S.S. that was started years back in one of the first blade books. It is police only through and through.

But I have often wondered about what scenario occured to bring these bayonets to life. There are so few of them in comparison to the standard Polizeiseitengewehr modified from the Prussian blades or created new, yet both varieties of police bayonet were included in the Polizei Dienst Vorschrift 13, "Die
'blanken Waffen" der Polizei" prepared and published in early 1938. And the P.S.S. wasn't merely grouped with the Polizeiseitengewehr as just another police bayonet. It was separately classified as a "Special Design". I don't think it was for general issue to all police. Nor do I do think it was a test model or an instance where the reworking proved so costly that it was discontinued. There were enough of them around that they were included PDV 13 and the later Fischer Leitfadens.

I have often wondered if there was an Honor Formation that was intended for these blades. Perhaps the blades were intended for special dress events? But the uniform dress regulations soon provided that the S84/98 was to be worn with Parade Dress. This is all speculation, but this lack of "closure", in knowing what the P.S.S. was used for, is maddening.

Joe,

I agree with all you have said about the PSS. And, I know that you believe, as I do, that the PSS is strictly a Polizei item of issue. The SS myth is still alive and well in some circles though. Generally, it can be noted in the descriptions of various sellers to justify the price. Not so for Collector to Collector though, I am happy to see.

I could certainly accept that it was intended as something "special" just as the name implies. Very possibly as a police parade or honor formation bayonet??? As you say, it is sure that the police had something in mind by producing it, calling it a special design, and listing it separately in the nomenclature. It is maddening to be so close, yet still so far from an answer. But, this is what makes collecting intersting, is it not?

George

Hi Billy and Joe!
It is me, Bob Iqbal from collector to collector. Joe, I am also the owner of the high relief engraved 38H. COuld you contact me again as your email address is different. My address is rfimd2000@yahoo.com
In regard to my PSS, I need to retake the pictures. Billy mentioned long ago they were "messed up" and I never had a chance to fix the problem. On the Exc+ rating, that is where I felt it should be. However, I have found condition ratings to very greatly among dealers. This is the reason I write good descriptions as well as pics on every item. To this day, I have had 3 returns and none were due to condition dis agreements.
Too bad it was sharpened although the plating is in wonderful condition which is where it made up in my rating.
If you need any information on my PSS let me know and I will be happy to contribute.
Best Wishes,
Bob

Another one and the best one I have seen. Never used. Alexander Coppel

Houston:
An absolute "Stone Cold" Beauty.
Thanks for posting it.
Jax

Bob, you spared no details in the P.S.S. description on your web site. But it was this accuracy that seemed to conflict with the subjective grading. Your photos were quite sufficient, though I did not see whether the scabbard was marked with the same prior property number?

Joe,

I was under the impression, and quite possibly mistaken, that the scabbards for the PSS bayonets were manufactured specifically for the new model bayonet and not a refurbished item like the bayonets themselves. On that note, I don't think I've ever seen a PSS that had a property number on the scabbard. How far off base am I?

According to the Police Weapons Manual of April 1938, the P.S.S. is a modified S.98/05 in which the blade and the scabbard are made 6mm smaller than the original S.98/05. Comparing the two, one can see the only thing changed on the bayonet was the enlarged blade was ground down, then the etching, new grips and nickeling was done. The scabbards were worked more extensively to narrow the length. So prior markings could be observed. One of mine is numbered "38" on the crossguard and the scabbard throat piece. I thought Houston's S.Tr. was marked in both places?

There is some question whether the work was done only in police armory facilities. The order to shorten the long clamshells indicates the work was farmed out to other commercial facilities with the Berlin Police Weapons Facility (PTV) acting as the clearing house. If commercial facilities were used for the clamshell conversions, I would think the same would be done for the P.S.S. conversions which were apparently done earlier than the clamshells. I say this because my copy of the April 1938 PDV 13 includes chapters on the P.S.S. as well as the standard Polizeiseitengewehr as I mentioned earlier. But the chapter includes drawings of both the long clamshells with 1936 police eagle grip insignia as well as a standard length police bayonet. The manual includes paste in modifications removing the long clamshells which would be accounted for with the order to shorten them. All of this indicates to me that the P.S.S. were created sometime from late 1936 to before April 1938, the date of production of PDV 13.

By arguing for this earlier production of the P.S.S. I think I have made a case that these bayonets might have "issue" property markings, as it is possible the order to cease police markings might have been given after the P.S.S. production. I hope I have not been too confusing with this monologue.

My S. Tr. was marked on the scabbard. The PSS also has a much bigger frog stud than the 98.05. It is still my opinion that these are trial pieces and the first of the Nazi Police Bayonets.

Joe,

Your post was detailed and informative, and certainly appreciated.

I was under the mistaken impression the Germans produced new scabbards for the newly refurbished pieces that became PSSs. I hadn't remembered Houston's piece with the S. Tr, although I seem to recall seeing a picture or two of it a year or two ago and you're right, the one I remember was property marked on both the crossguard and scabbard top like a Schupo bayonet. Thanks for the details.


Houston,

Was your S. Tr. the piece you had for sale about 2 years ago?

Yes -I sold it when I got the mint one pictured above.

Off topic for a second, I found another picture with the same maker mark. This one's from Eban, never seen this mark before a few weeks ago. Notice how deeply struck this one is as compared to the mark that remains on the PSS. Has anyone else seen this mark on bayonets previously?

Houston,

I think I found a picture of your old S. Tr. PSS, Tom Wittmann's SS book. Looks like it was a great piece.

Fellow Collectors,

I do not generally collect anything but Imperial German bayos. However, I recently stumbled across a 3rd Reich bayo I would have been foolish not to grab. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get any concrete information on the veteran who brought it back, but it is a complete PSS Bayo with frog and Police Officer's bayonet knot. The crossguard is marked S.H.72, which, as noted earlier in this topic (why I decided to post here instead of starting a new one), most likely denotes the Schutzpolizei Hannover. The black leather frog is maker marked VD HORST, LEIDEN 1941, using copper/brass rivets, which I thought was interesting given the date. The original 98/05 maker was Waffenfabrik Mauser, dated W16. Original and correct scabbard retains 99% of its original heavy bluing. I'm not sure this is significant (and from what little I know about the manufacture of 3rd Reich era knots, I don't think it is), but this knot's acorn is made from grey thread wrapped around a lighter colored thread as opposed to bullion. The black strap is cloth as well, which I know is common. Of course, the era of manufacture of the knot, or frog for that matter, may have no bearing or relation to the era of manufacture of the bayonet.

As I said, I don't collect 3rd Reich, so I will be parting with this shortly, hopefully for an equally impressive Imperial German bayo, but I wanted to post the find here, particuarly because of the SchutzPo Hannover marking, and because it seems fairly likely that the frog and knot are original to the bayo, and I thought it might help shed more light on the origins of this bayo. I know there still exists some confusion with regards to the origin or purpose of this particular police bayo. I know it has been somewhat quixotically suggested that the PSS was somehow related to the SS, to the point where recorded examples have been shown with SS knots in certain books. On page 344 of Jim Maddox's book "Collecting Bayonets," he states "It is believed by some collectors that these rare bayonets were produced after 1936 for use by policemen who held dual ranks in the Polizei and the SS." Regardless of its purpose, it's a VERY COOL bayonet, and quite rare as well.

Has anyone made an attempt to compile a list of the known unit markings found on these bayos? Elsewhere on this site there is mention of another S.H.69. marking, a P.Sch.25. marking, and an S.Tr. marking (there is also an S.Tr.88. marking found in Maddox's book).

Given the existence of another S.H. marked PSS bayo, I highly doubt these were markings remaining from the bayonet's former life as a police issued 98/05. Regardless, I find it very difficult to believe that so much care and work could go into modifying one of these bayos, only to then leave the previous unit marking on there, which would be the easiest thing to modify! Although, it's certainly a possibility that shouldn't be ignored.

I will attach pics either later tonight or tomorrow.

Grats Billy G, I've been looking for one of those for a while. Seems they go for 3K plus now

Me too, for my blue collar wallet $

steve,

Nate,

Please post pics, I'd love to see your new piece. I think there's a general consensus now that the SS link to this sidearm was more a result of dealer puffing on the initials "PSS" than the actual useage which seems (form the regs) to simply be a new model "special" police bayonet.

We do know many policemen held dual ranks in the police & SS but I don't believe this bayonet was indicative of it. A better indication of dual membership would probably be a period SS knot on a police bayonet.



Fitz,

I had forgotten about this thread & frankly I'm surprised it's still around considering GD's software as of late. Thanks for bringing it back up.

I've seen PSSs listed for $4K+ now for a few years although I don't know if they sell for that sum. They do pop up from time to time, sometimes reasonably. I have a good friend who had one fall into his lap VERY reasonably recently. They are out there.


Steve,

If I find a decent one, maybe we'll talk about a trade

Here you have the proper regulations from the "Waffentechnischer Leitfaden für die Ordnungspolizei".

The drawing in the book.

The names (there is an upper row of bayonets in the book).

And finally the exact description of the P.S.S. bayonet.
This certain bayonet for sure did not have more relationship to the SS than the police itself.
Nevertheless a rare and for serious collectors very desirable edged weapon.
Regards,

Is there any indication as to the purpose of the PSS or who would/should be wearing it in this on any other publication you know of?

Sorry Houston, no, I am not aware of any.
Regards,

In Leni Riefenstal's documentary of the 1934 party rally, "Triumph des Willens", there is a sequence in the congress hall (fairly late into the movie) which shows an SS-troop acting as an aisle minder. He is wearing what could be a modified 98.05, similar to a P.S.S. There is certainly no police insignia on the grip, but an SS-bayo troddell can clearly be seen. My camera and computer skills are not up to capturing this image but if anyone has this film on dvd, has the requisite skills, and can find this interesting clip and capture it on a decent still image, it could then be brought to this forum for analysis and discussion.

Barry Brown

Hey guys.

I've spent the last hour looking for a photo I KNOW I've seen, I can still see it in my head, of an LAH Honor Guard with an S98/05, and a white 98/05 frog on his belt. I CAN'T FIND THE DAMN THING, but I know I've looked at it several times. Needless to say it's a bit frustrating. However, I was under the impression that it was generally excepted that unmodified (with the exception of the typical Weimar mods) 98/05s were worn by the LAH at some early point.

However, I stumbled across something in a book that I think we'll all find quite interesting:

"Edged Weapons of Hitler's Germany," Robin Lumsden, page 119 and 122:

"In 1920, plain Army surplus M.98/05 service bayonets, with their single long curved quillons, were issued as symbols of authority for everyday wear by members of the new provincial police forces set up in terms of the Weimar constitution. A FULL-DRESS VERSION OF THIS SIDEARM PATTERN, KNOWN AS THE POLIZEISEITENGEWEHR SONDERAUSFUHRUNG, OR PSS, WAS CREATED AT THE SAME TIME FOR PRIVATE PURCHASE AND USE ON CEREMONIAL OCCASIONS. IT WAS ENTIERLY NICKEL PLATED WITH OAKLEAF DECORATION TO THE HILT AND CROSSGUARD. THE WEIMAR POLICE EMBLEM, COMPRISING A SIX-SIDED STAR WITH A STATIC AND WEAPONLESS REPUBLICAN EAGLE IN THE CENTRE, WAS AFFIXED TO THE STAGHORN GRIP, WHILE THE NICKLED BLADE WAS MODIFIED TO INCORPORATE A SPEAR POINT AND WAS CONTAINED IN A PLAIN BLUED STEEL SCABBARD. WORN WITH A KNOT IN PROVINCIAL COLOURS, THE PSS WAS THE FIRST IN WHAT WAS SOON TO BECOME A LONG LINE OF POLICE DRESS BAYONET VARIATIONS." On page 122 it then states "...the M.20 PSS bayonet continued to by produced in small numbers until 1940 as an alternative form of private-purchase sidearm."

I'm not sure if these statements from this book have been mentioned elsewhere in discussions on this forum, but I certainly haven't seen any info as firm as this on the PSS anywhere else. Now, I've been collecting long enough to know that one cannot, and should never, take a book as accurate without further research, especially when only one book seems to contain said info. But the author makes these claims with such authority, it seems reasonable to assume that he had found some source, or sources, reliable enough to make these claims without any indication of uncertainty.

Again, I'm not a 3rd Reich collector. At least, not anymore. I'm interested in knowing what others here think about the validity of these claims.

Cheers!
Nate

Not correct IMO. I have never seen or heard of a PSS with the Prussian Police grip emblem. Also IMO they were produced sometime in the early Third Reich years from bayonets that were government property.

Nate,

I agree with Houston on this issue. I think Robin was wrong on this as the PSS was a Third Reich creation and should have the M1936 Polizei eagle and not the Weimar Republic period star grip insignia. The newly manufactured PSS scabbards usually have an NS Zeit WaA that indicates when they were reworked and issued. I suspect he got the standard reworked Prussian Police bayonets that originally had a star grip insignia confused with the PSS.

It's great to hear from you, George. I was hoping you would join in. And Mr. Coates, thanks for your reply as well. I'm in a bit of a hurry, but I am going to post a few rushed pics of my PSS for all to see. I haven't made any attempt to remove the dirt and grime built up in some areas. I have noticed that while this example has a slotted press stud, all the others I have seen thus far do not.

More pics. Enjoy!

and more...

Last one for now...

Nate,

For someone who doesn't collect 3R items, you certainly have an eye for the rare & beautiful. Your PSS looks to be in really nice shape as well. I've never seen (or heard of) a PSS bayonet with Weimar star so I'd have to agree with George on this.

Of the PSSs I've seen, maybe 1/4 to 1/3 had some sort of unit or inventory marking on them. This is the first that I've seen with the "H" but considering the inventory number of 72, it's a good possibility there's more out there with the same city mark.

Is there any marking on the frog's reverse? Thanks for sharing it with us.

Nate,

Congrats, you have a perfectly original PSS in excellent condition. Don Maus has identified this property marking as indicating the Schutzpolizei of Hannover (along with Hn.#).

Thanks for the kind replies, gents!

Billy, there was another SchuPo Hannover marked PSS reported on another topic in this forum. I believe it was seen online for sale. I'm too damn lazy at the moment to find a link for you: Just got back from a 13 hour day working all over NYC, and I'm pretty beat! I'm kinda curious to know if the other S.H. PSS also has a slotted press stud. Have you seen any other PSS with a slotted press stud??

Billy, the marking on the frog is VD HORST, Leiden, 1941 (I actually did mention this along with the other S.H. unit marking in my first post here, but I can't blame anyone for not wanting to read my often loquacious rants!). I'm definitely interested in compiling a list of the unit markings found so far on the PSS.

Yes, for me, rare and beautiful is the only way to go. I've got pretty high standards for my collection.

Thanks for the congrats, George. But this really isn't my bayonet. I am merely holding it till it finds its rightful owner. It's certainly a great bayo, and a great example of a great bayo at that, but there are, I am sure, plenty of collectors out there for whom a chance to have this in their collection means far more than it does to me. Don't get me wrong, I fully intend to replace it with an Imperial German bayo, or perhaps bayos, with comparable beauty and rarity!

On that note, if anyone is interested, or knows someone who may be, especially those who also have Imperial bayos, please feel free to PM me. I know it probably won't be easy to find someone who collects both 3rd Reich and Imperial bayos seriously enough to have an Imperial bayo worth trading. One way or another, however, this PSS will make someone else very happy, and in return, I will be thrilled as well! I have to say that this find has been the best of my short collecting career thus far.

Cheerio!
Nate

I came across this PSS with this strange frog at this link:
http://www.johnsonreferenceboo...ets/POLICE/22898.htm

Has anyone seen a frog like that before??

Nate,

Were you able to make a sale before they pulled it?

A bit late in joining this topic again, but I am amazed at that author's assertion about a some kind of M20 P.S.S. with the the "Weimar police emblem" on the grip plate. People pay money to read such BS? To begin with, the Weimar police emblem on the grip was the insignia of the Prussian police. There was no Weimar police or police bayonet. The stag grip bayonets with the six sides star with the eagle in the center was a Prussian M29 Seitengewehr. That is the date of the first standardized Prussian police bayonet. Such information has always been readily available in George's book and Vol.IV of Johnson's series, also found in thread on this forum and others. Why someone even think these were created in 1920, when Germany was in the throes of civil war the the Allied Occupation Authority was requiring the German states to de-emphasize the militaristic aspects of their police forces.

Houston, the 1937/38 German Police Manual No.13 pictures the P.S.S. and indicates that they were then being produced from older blades. Do have anything in your references to support you contention that these blades (P.S.S.) were produced in the early Third Reich years, which I assume you to mean 1933-1935?

There is some collateral discussion on other forums that gives some indication of the refurbisher of the P.S.S.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262282&highlight=machete
Examining the blades springs of examples of my survival machetes and P.S.S., I found identical WaA883 markings. The machetes were produced by Alcoso. The WaA883 is a common mark found on WWII German edged weapons, but would there be any assumption that Alcoso used these WaA883 springs when they reworked the P.S.S.?

Joe, For what it's worth, I think that the WaA883 Waffenamt(s) would put it into the 1940/41 time frame. With possibly some “wiggle room” at either end in 1939 and 1942, with maybe a slightly greater tilt into 1942 for combat bayonets. Andy B has the best data, but that's my immediate recollection. FP