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That acronym PSS always gets bayonet collectors' attention. I didn't think much of them the first time I saw one in a picture but that was a while ago and I had a lot to learn. Since seeing one in the flesh I was instantly hooked.

I picked up my first, a mint example, several years ago and have looked since then to find one of equal or better condition. I think I succeeded. This one, maker marked "Deutsche Faschinenfabrik AG Duisburg" is the first of any edged weapon I've seen with this mark.


Great stag grip plates with no wear or damage.
The pommel etching is crisp as is the crossguard etch. The blade is mirror bright with no spots, rust, pits, etc. The scabbard retains nearly 100% of it's original anodized surface and has absolutely no dents whatsoever. I don't know if the internal springs have WaA marks, I don't want to skew the scabbard by removing the throat since it's on there pretty good.

Not sure if this piece was issued but if it was, it wasn't carried long, that's for sure.

Here's a nice picture showing the pommel detail.

2.JPG (40.47 KB, 886 downloads)

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Here's one of the obverse crossguard etch.

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One of the reverse crossguard with maker's mark

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Reverse pommel etch

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Scabbard obverse, no defects at all. One thing that really hits you when examining one of these pieces is the overall quality of these pieces. I can see why the 3R would have discontinued them based on the presumed level of work it must have taken to fabricate one of these. This piece really is heavy in hand and a nice solid unit.

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Grip eagle, almost forgot. I'll have to get a clearer one of this shot, the adler has nice crisp detail.

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Wow! I always wanted one of these...

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Billy G, congratulations to your find. I do appreciate these kind of bajonets so much that I do own two of them. A MAUSER (!) and a HENKEL. and I know also a best conditioned no maker mark in a collection.
Can you show a closeup of the maker mark as I think it correctly should read "...Maschinenfabrik..."(= factory of machines) and not "Faschinenfabrik". I think perhaps part-stamping led to this error?


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Nice goin' Billy! I'm still looking for my first one.
Best Regards....


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Hallo Wotan,

I'm sure you're quite right about the missing letter in the stamping. I think it was my more than obvious love for the feuerwehr faschinenmesser that contributed to the error Smile I killed my batteries last night snapping a ton of pictures of this and a few other pieces that arrived yesterday. I was able to invert the picture and I think you can make out where the letter in the second word is missing, probably from a lighter than average strike by the fellow stamping the mark.

Hi Denny,

Thanks man, I'm pretty happy with it myself although I think I'm just a touch more partial to the Hartkopf I found a while ago. This one is actually a bit better, the scabbard has no depressions at all, certainly no dents or anything.

Even though I have a lot of dress bayonets, and as hard as this sounds if I had to pitch them all and keep just one, it would be a PSS. Not to worry, they are out there and you'll get lucky, I'm sure of it. This is my second so I'm sure there's one with your name on it.

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Billy,

An excellent example of a textbook PSS bayonet. Most certainly the missing letter was simply polished off by the armorer when the blade was re-shaped and polished prior to plating it. This is common on refurbished bayonets. Collectors should not lose sight of the fact that this bayonet started out life as a S98/05. You will also see the original Imperial markings deliberately removed on the spine of the blade on some of these PSS and you will see them left in place on other examples. It appears from the photographs that part of the original Imperial inspection mark is still on the back of the pommel above the lug catch.

Congratulations on an excellent, and absolutly original, example.

George


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I can only accompany what ORPO states, I think this refurbishing is also the reason for the one I know without any maker mark.
These bajonets are quite rare and searched after.
Thank you for showing it.


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Hi George,

Thanks for your observations, and as I expected, you're quite right. The blade spine has the remnants of the original Imperial inspection marks. Much of the maker mark appears deep while other letters such as those in the direct center, The M in "Maschinenfabrik", the A in "AG" and the D in Duisburg all appear much lighter than the letters on the flanks of the mark which have been.

Also of interest, the number 192 is stamped and visable on the top of the mortise key as it leaves the pommel when the button is pushed.

Although I haven't seen very many of these bayonets, I don't believe I've ever seen a duplicate maker mark, they've all been different. You know many of us collectors are more appropriately termed addicts when we find minutiae like this so exciting and interesting.

I would be interested to see how many forum members have a PSS in their collections and how many of those PSSs have unit markings.


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Billy,

It would certainly be good information to see if anyone has a PSS with an identifiable unit marking, or serial number, on the back of the guard, the blade ricasso, or the scabbard. Mine is just as Wotan describes in that the maker marking has been polished off prior to plating. Interestingly, the original Imperial inspection markings and date were left intact on the spine of the blade. No unit markings or serial number on this one. Look on the blade ricasso for a stamped serial number as well. Anyone with a PSS with a unit marking or serial number to report?

George


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I do have in my files PSS bajonets of OHLIGER, DÜRKOPP, HENKEL and NO MAKER. Mine are of MAUSER and HERDER (sorry I first thought of HENKEL) and I know another NO MAKER. None of it does have any unit markings.
But I think to remember that a member of GD.C (Bob Hritz?, Houston Coates?) has a "Tr #" marked PSS bajonet which he once has shown here.


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Have looked through old files and found that Houston Coates once has mentioned that he has had a PSS with the (unidentified ?) "Tr" marking.


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Billy G:
First, there is a paucity of PSS blades out here on the Left Koast.
I have never had the opportunity of finding one for sale out here, let alone seeing one on display!
I do believe, they were never allowed to pass Westward from those grasping hands back East!
Secondly, I must congratulate you on the finest PSS specimen I have ever seen, picturewise.
Feel free to send it out for a swap on any of my 98k's...HA!
That scabbard is immaculate.
Thanx for the pictures.
Jax

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Billy

Nice piece, the ones I have seen had plating loss. I would have to take out a loan to buy one of those.

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Collector to Collector Militaria advertises on this site, they have a PSS for sale that has matching issue marks.

Luc


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Hi Jack,

How're things out there? I hate to say it but I actually imported this piece from Kalifornia Smile It's not easy, they are too many people looking to scoop these up. I think this example is pretty sweet in itself, my photographic skills are notoriously poor. Time for a remedial class methinks. Many thanks for the kind words though.

Hi Terry,

I have to see if I can find one for you and I'll be honest, your rare and beautiful fire bayonets are quite the bait.

Luc,

You're quite right, Bob's PSS on Collector to Collector Militaria is a nice one with a lot going for it, WKC maker marked and unit marked as well.

The PSS marks I've observed so far:
Gebruder Hartkopf/Walter & Co, Mühlhausen
JA Henckels/Frister & Rossmann, Berlin
Deutsche Maschininfabrik
Dürkoppwerk (sp?)
E&F Horster
WKC

Here's a pic of the other love of my life, a PSS from Gebruder Hartkopf. The white frog and knot were later affectations.

PSS_Hartkopf.JPG (49.59 KB, 697 downloads)

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Billy G:
I am in the process of arrangeing for a "Hitman" to take care of that Kalifornian that sold you the PSS!
How dare he send it OUT-OF-STATE?
Is there no loyalty left in this world?
Actually, if anyone deserved this beauty, it is you Billy, to go with all your other beauties...it is in good company.
Especially with that other PSS that you've shown us...another beauty.
But the "Hit" still stands!
Jax

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Polizist,

I looked at the bayonet on Collector to Collector and it seems to be marked "S.H.69" on the crossguard. The other markings shown, such as the matching "S.Br.I.164" are on another regular bayonet and not on this PSS. I don't know why the photos are mixed up, but "S.H.69" seems to be the marking on the PSS.

These markings correspond with the Prussian Police markings for the Schutzpolizei Hannover. These markings were authorized under both the 1922 and the 1932 Vorschriften für die Polizei Preussens. This seems to show that this PSS was issued to the Hannover Police and not to a SS unit as has been proposed for years. If Houston has a PSS with yet another marking, it seems clear that these bayonets were, as stated in offical police nomenclature, simply another "special police bayonet" instead of being related to the SS in any way; no matter how sexy that may sound to affect the price.

George


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I have one of the P.S.S.reworks of a Henkel bladed Akt.Ges.vorm.Frister & Rossmann, as well as a Fichtel & Sachs/Schweinfurt.

George, I have to wonder whether the marking S.H.69 on that WKC P.S.S. mentioned is really a remnant of the S98/05 marking. These P.S.S. were reworked well after the 1937 order to cease property markings on police equipment. I now feel the same about the "Tr." marking on the one that Houston owned.


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Joe,

You are correct that these markings should not have been placed on these bayonets after 1937. I had not considered that they may be remnant markings. That is possible.

The fact is, that is really what most of these markings were on the reworked standard police bayonets that were shortened for the nationalized police. It is just possible that this "S.H." marked PSS bayonet started out life as a Hannover S98/05. We do know that not all the old markings were removed from these reworked PSS as has been discussed. It is no different from any other Prussian marked long clamshell that was reworked into a shortened police bayonet with the clamshell removed. We presume that these bayonets were reworked and returned to, or remained in, the stores of the various police agencies, as they were the property of those police agencies and the marks were not cancelled. It is possible that this particular Hannover PSS was simply reworked and returned to the Hannover Police stores in the same manner as all the other property marked bayonets were.

Good thinking! I do not see any good argument against this marking being a remnant. Although, it could also have been newly applied by a Hannover Police armorer who simply wanted to mark the weapon when he received it or reworked it himself.

The one thing that I am certain of is that the PSS is a police bayonet and was not something issued to any SS unit. All this nonsense seems to have begun with the PSS designation and a misunderstanding of the meaning of Polizei-Seitengewehr Sonderausfuhrung. Anything that has two Ss together seems to ring the cash register.

George


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Can anyone direct me to the Collector to Collector website ? I wish to take a look at the PSS. Many thanks.

Keith


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Keith, that dealer website is listed under the advertisers of this forum. It appears to be a nice P.S.S., though I would question an Exc+ condition designation for a bayonet with a sharpened blade and dented scabbard.As George pointed out, there is a non P.S.S. image or two attached to the ad that is a bit confusing.

George, my comment on the remnant unit marking in no way endorses any "SS" association of the P.S.S. that was started years back in one of the first blade books. It is police only through and through.

But I have often wondered about what scenario occured to bring these bayonets to life. There are so few of them in comparison to the standard Polizeiseitengewehr modified from the Prussian blades or created new, yet both varieties of police bayonet were included in the Polizei Dienst Vorschrift 13, "Die
'blanken Waffen" der Polizei" prepared and published in early 1938. And the P.S.S. wasn't merely grouped with the Polizeiseitengewehr as just another police bayonet. It was separately classified as a "Special Design". I don't think it was for general issue to all police. Nor do I do think it was a test model or an instance where the reworking proved so costly that it was discontinued. There were enough of them around that they were included PDV 13 and the later Fischer Leitfadens.

I have often wondered if there was an Honor Formation that was intended for these blades. Perhaps the blades were intended for special dress events? But the uniform dress regulations soon provided that the S84/98 was to be worn with Parade Dress. This is all speculation, but this lack of "closure", in knowing what the P.S.S. was used for, is maddening.


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Joe,

I agree with all you have said about the PSS. And, I know that you believe, as I do, that the PSS is strictly a Polizei item of issue. The SS myth is still alive and well in some circles though. Generally, it can be noted in the descriptions of various sellers to justify the price. Not so for Collector to Collector though, I am happy to see.

I could certainly accept that it was intended as something "special" just as the name implies. Very possibly as a police parade or honor formation bayonet??? As you say, it is sure that the police had something in mind by producing it, calling it a special design, and listing it separately in the nomenclature. It is maddening to be so close, yet still so far from an answer. But, this is what makes collecting intersting, is it not?

George


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Hi Billy and Joe!
It is me, Bob Iqbal from collector to collector. Joe, I am also the owner of the high relief engraved 38H. COuld you contact me again as your email address is different. My address is rfimd2000@yahoo.com
In regard to my PSS, I need to retake the pictures. Billy mentioned long ago they were "messed up" and I never had a chance to fix the problem. On the Exc+ rating, that is where I felt it should be. However, I have found condition ratings to very greatly among dealers. This is the reason I write good descriptions as well as pics on every item. To this day, I have had 3 returns and none were due to condition dis agreements.
Too bad it was sharpened although the plating is in wonderful condition which is where it made up in my rating.
If you need any information on my PSS let me know and I will be happy to contribute.
Best Wishes,
Bob

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Another one and the best one I have seen. Never used. Alexander Coppel

P508000_PSS-GDC__RESIZED.jpg (39.48 KB, 580 downloads)

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Houston:
An absolute "Stone Cold" Beauty.
Thanks for posting it.
Jax

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Bob, you spared no details in the P.S.S. description on your web site. But it was this accuracy that seemed to conflict with the subjective grading. Your photos were quite sufficient, though I did not see whether the scabbard was marked with the same prior property number?


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Joe,

I was under the impression, and quite possibly mistaken, that the scabbards for the PSS bayonets were manufactured specifically for the new model bayonet and not a refurbished item like the bayonets themselves. On that note, I don't think I've ever seen a PSS that had a property number on the scabbard. How far off base am I?


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According to the Police Weapons Manual of April 1938, the P.S.S. is a modified S.98/05 in which the blade and the scabbard are made 6mm smaller than the original S.98/05. Comparing the two, one can see the only thing changed on the bayonet was the enlarged blade was ground down, then the etching, new grips and nickeling was done. The scabbards were worked more extensively to narrow the length. So prior markings could be observed. One of mine is numbered "38" on the crossguard and the scabbard throat piece. I thought Houston's S.Tr. was marked in both places?

There is some question whether the work was done only in police armory facilities. The order to shorten the long clamshells indicates the work was farmed out to other commercial facilities with the Berlin Police Weapons Facility (PTV) acting as the clearing house. If commercial facilities were used for the clamshell conversions, I would think the same would be done for the P.S.S. conversions which were apparently done earlier than the clamshells. I say this because my copy of the April 1938 PDV 13 includes chapters on the P.S.S. as well as the standard Polizeiseitengewehr as I mentioned earlier. But the chapter includes drawings of both the long clamshells with 1936 police eagle grip insignia as well as a standard length police bayonet. The manual includes paste in modifications removing the long clamshells which would be accounted for with the order to shorten them. All of this indicates to me that the P.S.S. were created sometime from late 1936 to before April 1938, the date of production of PDV 13.

By arguing for this earlier production of the P.S.S. I think I have made a case that these bayonets might have "issue" property markings, as it is possible the order to cease police markings might have been given after the P.S.S. production. I hope I have not been too confusing with this monologue.


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My S. Tr. was marked on the scabbard. The PSS also has a much bigger frog stud than the 98.05. It is still my opinion that these are trial pieces and the first of the Nazi Police Bayonets.


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Joe,

Your post was detailed and informative, and certainly appreciated.

I was under the mistaken impression the Germans produced new scabbards for the newly refurbished pieces that became PSSs. I hadn't remembered Houston's piece with the S. Tr, although I seem to recall seeing a picture or two of it a year or two ago and you're right, the one I remember was property marked on both the crossguard and scabbard top like a Schupo bayonet. Thanks for the details.


Houston,

Was your S. Tr. the piece you had for sale about 2 years ago?


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Yes -I sold it when I got the mint one pictured above.


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Off topic for a second, I found another picture with the same maker mark. This one's from Eban, never seen this mark before a few weeks ago. Notice how deeply struck this one is as compared to the mark that remains on the PSS. Has anyone else seen this mark on bayonets previously?

Deutsche_Maschinen_fabrik_Mark.jpg (31.67 KB, 546 downloads)

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Houston,

I think I found a picture of your old S. Tr. PSS, Tom Wittmann's SS book. Looks like it was a great piece.


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Fellow Collectors,

I do not generally collect anything but Imperial German bayos. However, I recently stumbled across a 3rd Reich bayo I would have been foolish not to grab. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get any concrete information on the veteran who brought it back, but it is a complete PSS Bayo with frog and Police Officer's bayonet knot. The crossguard is marked S.H.72, which, as noted earlier in this topic (why I decided to post here instead of starting a new one), most likely denotes the Schutzpolizei Hannover. The black leather frog is maker marked VD HORST, LEIDEN 1941, using copper/brass rivets, which I thought was interesting given the date. The original 98/05 maker was Waffenfabrik Mauser, dated W16. Original and correct scabbard retains 99% of its original heavy bluing. I'm not sure this is significant (and from what little I know about the manufacture of 3rd Reich era knots, I don't think it is), but this knot's acorn is made from grey thread wrapped around a lighter colored thread as opposed to bullion. The black strap is cloth as well, which I know is common. Of course, the era of manufacture of the knot, or frog for that matter, may have no bearing or relation to the era of manufacture of the bayonet.

As I said, I don't collect 3rd Reich, so I will be parting with this shortly, hopefully for an equally impressive Imperial German bayo, but I wanted to post the find here, particuarly because of the SchutzPo Hannover marking, and because it seems fairly likely that the frog and knot are original to the bayo, and I thought it might help shed more light on the origins of this bayo. I know there still exists some confusion with regards to the origin or purpose of this particular police bayo. I know it has been somewhat quixotically suggested that the PSS was somehow related to the SS, to the point where recorded examples have been shown with SS knots in certain books. On page 344 of Jim Maddox's book "Collecting Bayonets," he states "It is believed by some collectors that these rare bayonets were produced after 1936 for use by policemen who held dual ranks in the Polizei and the SS." Regardless of its purpose, it's a VERY COOL bayonet, and quite rare as well.

Has anyone made an attempt to compile a list of the known unit markings found on these bayos? Elsewhere on this site there is mention of another S.H.69. marking, a P.Sch.25. marking, and an S.Tr. marking (there is also an S.Tr.88. marking found in Maddox's book).

Given the existence of another S.H. marked PSS bayo, I highly doubt these were markings remaining from the bayonet's former life as a police issued 98/05. Regardless, I find it very difficult to believe that so much care and work could go into modifying one of these bayos, only to then leave the previous unit marking on there, which would be the easiest thing to modify! Although, it's certainly a possibility that shouldn't be ignored.

I will attach pics either later tonight or tomorrow.


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Grats Billy G, I've been looking for one of those for a while. Seems they go for 3K plus now

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