UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum To Mongobongo

Mondobongo. I apologize for my less than approprate comments. I just got pretty angry because the old guy was cheated out of something that could have helped his economic situation. I do not expect you at all to pay for something that is not your fault. I do beleive you are a gentleman and I was out of line. I myself am a physician so I understand you when you say that people always want you to solve their economic problems. That being said
I do beleive that comments like "just to shut up the ****heads " by Terry are also out of line. And I have no Idea what Nolan said that was racist. But I beleive that all this animosity and mixed feelings are a direct result of Chris's actions. Well, that and a few beers sparked my rambling. Thank you all and again my sincerest apologies. Raul.

PS. My German Grandfather saw this dagger on the forum and he loved that it was in such great condition after all these years.

There is still one final question. Who ended up with the extra money? Many of us would like to have it clearly stated.

quote:

Originally posted by Houston Coates:
There is still one final question. Who ended up with the extra money? Many of us would like to have it clearly stated.

We all know the answer to that. There is NO justice

I think it is obvious Houston, even if not stated.

It amazes me how far some in this hobby stoop when greed is the motivation and how arrogant they can be to think they will get away untarnished.

The good thing is this hobby is no longer the domain of the ignorant, uninformed and uncommunitive.

Mongo does not care to state how much he paid, which is his perfect right ,,, But it appears that whatever he paid above the 6,000 originally agreed to was the profit for this shameless shyster Ailsby.

There must be more to this than meets the eye, perhaps we'll never know.
Its easy for anyone to say "I would have done this or that", fact is we don't know how we'll handle any given situation until confronted with them - Lets hope we are never confronted with such circumstances as the parties involved in this mess.

Doug. I can easily tell you how I would have handled it. Ailsby returned the cash because he knew he was going to jail. All the money should have gone to Matt's uncle. There should not be an issue on this. These are common values taught to us by our parents. Mongobongo keeps the dagger (thats fine) but what about the money? It ALL belongs to the real hero in this picture. Cheers, Raul

I would like to hear it stated. You know what happens when you "assume".

Silence. Ca'mon-Let's hear the truth. WHO got the extra money?

I am 99.9% sure it was that SCUMBAG ailsby that kept all the remaining money!!!

Mongobongo... wrote this under the "Community Center"

"If you are sending any goods abroad please dont send them as "a gift" to avoid customs charges, unless you have been paid for them.

Lets just say if you ever have a problem getting paid, you could well find that the fact the item was sent as "a gift" could be used against you."

Don't know this for sure,but I bet you SCUMBBAG ailsby told the seller of this dagger to send it to him as a gift to avoid paying any customs fee'e...I Believe the whole time he never planned on paying him.

How in the heck can this guy sleep at night???

Sepp

Total silence

Mongo said [in the now closed Ultra rare NSKK Honor dagger thread]:

"Matt got the amount he and chris agreed on, not what I paid for the piece."

I take that to mean the original agreement of 6,000 pounds.
Since mongo has also stated that he paid substantially more than that, it is left to conclude that CA reaped a substantial profit, as originally intended.

Don't know if theres any more relevant info on WAF, don't browse there anymore.

quote:

The good thing is this hobby is no longer the domain of the ignorant, uninformed and uncommunicative.

,,amen to that Spock.

Cheers MB!
I respect you, your motives and your diplomacy!


EVERYONE best wishes for the holiday season.

Paul "Mann" 0\\\\}IIIIIIIIII> ? ? ?

There are a couple of OTHER possibilities. Think like a cop and a couple of other lights may come on. Mongo knows--let him clearly state the answer and end the wondering. Silence makes it even worse.

Houston,

Can you share with us what you think those possibilities may be?

Dave

I will-but I'll wait a bit to see if Mongo wants to respond.

Houston...I have thought of another possibility
but I give it a .1% chance of being correct.
But who knows?

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

A personal opinion here on tactics based on watching this forum for quite a while:

If you are trying to get the three people involved to post something, you are unlikely to get any answer at all with these pointed posts and not-quite-accusations. Quite the reverse, as we have seen a few times in the past.

Plus, if Mongobongo has retained a lawyer, the lawyer is probably saying "Mongo, pack our bongos and visit the Congo" ... or something similar.

Dave

OK--
So now Mongo has had a chance to answer the question--Who got the extra money?
He has been on the forum ( I have been watching)--but he has not--so why not. He could have easily said Ailsby got the extra money-a bad deal but what most expected. He did not. He also could have said--the legal fees took most of it-a bit hard to swallow but still " a good answer" He did not. This would have ended this whole mess.--but--silence. WHY? What's the difference at this point? -or--Is there something to hide?

So now--we still wonder--Who pocketed the extra money?

1. Did Ailsby get it? If so why would Mongo let him have it after putting him on front street and causing a lot of trouble?
Seems unlikely to me--I would be really mad at him--would you?
2. Did Mongo pocket the extra money minus some possible legal fees?
3. Was there some kind of split of the extra money between Mongo and Ailsby?

So there are some "possibles". Maybe there is another or several other possibilities but I can't think of any.

We may never know the truth but--someone usually tells. Forum members may have to make up their own mind what to believe and whether anything that happened with this "deal" from start to finish was in any way fair. I do believe this--Matt got the shaft-twice. He made mistakes-yes-but was he dealt with fairly at ANY point?-by ANYONE?--You make the call.

Matt made quite a pitch on WAF about nailing Ailsby.
He got dicked around for 1.5 years, he got an insultingly low price, he said more than once he doesn't want the $$ anymore, he wants the dagger.
He apparently got a lawyer, then clammed up, as he should.

So the question is, how could he go from a tiger-like stance like that, and then accept the original offer like a mouse ?
My guess is he was told this affair could drag on quite a while and eat up considerable $$, its international character could be a complication ,,, So he was offered the original amount right now, or an indeterminate sum much later, and decided the 6,000 was more tangible than anything else.

Why mongo would be content to see CA harvest such a windfall profit at his expense, I'm not going to speculate on, cause it would be just that - Speculation.
Perhaps there wasn't a whole lot he could do about it, short of going over there and confronting him with a machete.
Its possible that he got a "rebate", if he did I guess thats his business and not ours.

******************
Raul


Edited for insults

Edited for insults

Edited for insults

Edited for insults

Please read the Code of Conduct before you post.

If this degenerates into another slagging match, I will not only close this thread but embargo the entire subject on GDC.

Dave

Perhaps Mongo just paid the extra 6000 to secure title on the dagger and Chris got off scott free.

Edited for insults

dond--Please! Do you really think Mongo let Ailsby off free and clear along with approx $25,000.00 of Mongo's money??????????????

quote:

Originally posted by dond:
Perhaps Mongo just paid the extra 6000 to secure title on the dagger and Chris got off scott free.

,,very likely, very close.
(Someone holding an IOU until the next mark comes along?)
"shields up!"

quote:

Originally posted by Houston Coates:
dond--Please! Do you really think Mongo let Ailsby off free and clear along with approx $25,000.00 of Mongo's money??????????????

I understand that the original seller is happy with the way things have worked out. What Mongo did or didn't do is his own business, why does it matter to you ?

Probably would be better to ban this topic if we are going to be treated as a bunch of 8 year olds who have to walk on eggshells with every word they write.

I saw all the deleted posts and saw nothing even close to insulting, I ask you Dave to please reconsider micro managing this affair in such a high handed manner.

I can appreciate the need to maintain forum discipline, but you are tossing out the baby with the bath water when someone says a couple mildly sarcastic words out of 3 paragraphs, and the whole thing is deleted.

quote:

Originally posted by Houston Coates:
dond--Please! Do you really think Mongo let Ailsby off free and clear along with approx $25,000.00 of Mongo's money??????????????

Only mongo and chris know for sure and neither are talking though both are members here. Mongo was already into it for a huge amount and would have had to forfeit the dagger as stolen property. In for a penny, in for a pound, er 6000 pounds?

Guys

I will answer a few questions on this matter but I don�t want to be used as a loaded gun. Firstly I accept that tempers have run high on occasions on this, mine have as well. I have tried to remain as impartial as possible to help these matters along.

I spoke to Matt after the initial problem was identified on the phone, he was at his witts end. Apparently Chris had told him that the piece was going to form part of a museum display over here in the UK. He was clearly distressed over the fact that he wanted his money from Chris and he felt like he was getting the run around. He had to give his uncle the money and he was being put in a very compromised position not being able to give his uncle the money.

I spoke to Chris on the phone the same day and he told me in no uncertain terms not to get involved and that it was not my problem. I explained that Matt had already been in touch and that he really needed to pay the guy!. He said that it was a problem between the two of them and that I had good title to the piece. I went on to say that whatever he thought the position was �it was immoral in my opinion�. I then asked him why he had not paid Matt, he just kept saying he had been trying. I asked how on earth that he could still be waiting 18 months or so after he had sent him the item. I then went on to remind him that I had paid cash for it a long while before, and a lot more than I had found out that he had paid for it.

He then said that Matts Brother was meant to be collecting the money in September or something like that of this year. I then spoke to Matt again and he was insistent that it was not correct.

I had two particularly heated conversations with Chris, the first was over the matter of money. Firstly Chris was adamant that when he struck the deal with Chris it was $2 to the pound and therefore he would not pay a penny more than �5,000. He then went on to say that he has been trying to pay Matt for months. I then said why had he not sent him a cheque, or paid by paypal etc if he was having difficulty in paying him?. Cut a long story short we ended up getting into a very heated debate about how we could solve this situation. He told me that the Police had been to see him and that Matt and others were going to leave themselves open to a massive deformation claim as his reputation had been ruined. He went on to say that the documents posted were real and that Matt would find himself in trouble with the Bank if he ever came over here. I told him that he really needed him to sort it out, he then insisted that he had been trying to pay Matt the �5,000. I said once again I understood it to be �6,000, another ten minutes of insults flew down the phone between us. At this time I said I would have no option other than legal to protect my position if this stuff was not sorted out. He then told me that I should never have gotten involved as I had nothing to do with it. I explained that it could be in his interests to pay the �6,000 to settle the matter and make it go away without us all spending a lot of money on Lawyers. I told him to think about paying the �6,000 and to call me back. I said that I had a morale obligation to help get it resolved as well as being the person who had actually spent all the cash despite what he said.

A day later he rang me back and agreed to pay the �6,000 to me to give to Matt on the understanding that he got a letter from Matts Lawyer to say that all charges both civil and all criminal proceedings would be dropped. I spoke to Matt about it and he was happy to sign a document in exchange for his money but was less than impressed that the legal costs would fall on him to pay. He was also not that confident that I would be able to get the money and it would mean that he was already out of pocket even further. After discussion it was agreed that if Chris paid the �6,000 to me, Matt would let me release the legal document to him. I spoke to Chris and explained that Matt would pay to have the legal document produced on the explicit understanding that he paid the money into my Bank account first.

Chris suggested a payment date slightly after Christmas, and clearly it was not acceptable so he agreed to pay the �6,000 to me last Friday in exchange for the document from Matt. I stated several times that If I got the document he would give me the money for Matt, and several times he agreed. A few days before the money was due I received a call from Chris, stating that he had been cleared by the Police. He said that he had proven that he had been trying to pay Matt and that he had proof that the dagger was a �gift�. When I asked him about it he said he had a customs slip with �gift� on it. Then he went on to say it was �5,000 again and that I should not trust Matt and that I had nothing to do with it. I did at this point loose my better judgement on the phone and started screaming at him like an animal. How dare you pull this **** on me, you agreed the �6,000!, you said you were going to pay the guy! Etc etc. How could you go back on what we had agreed, I am sick to death of all this crap, I am going to give the Dagger back to Matt and instruct my Lawyers on you tomorrow and take it all the way!. He then said that he could get Legal aid as all his assets were in a trust and that I would be wasting my money. I then pointed out that he had a great collection of Militaria that were assets. He told me that these were also in trust. I pointed out that in my previous life I was a qualified Tax and Trust expert as an IFA, and there is no way to my knowledge that assets like that could be in trust (I will spare you the legal reasons). But then he seemed to change his mind and said that he was in fact going to be bringing a huge law suit against all those who were insinuating he had done wrong. I then explained again calmly that the whole thing can go away if he pays the guy �6,000 as we had all previously agreed!. He then went into great detail about how I needed to make it clear to Matt that he needed to post everywhere that it had all been sorted out amicably and honourably to help restore his reputation. I don�t smoke but after this call I was so upset and emotionally charged that I had three cigarettes to stop the shaking. I asked Matt about the customs �gift� thing and he explained that Chris had asked him to send it like that to avoid paying customs duty.

On the Friday Chris paid the money as agreed, I received it and sent it to Matt (who has now had it all now). There have been no winners here and reputations have been destroyed. The whole way through this nightmare I acted as impartially as possible, and although some people think that �this or that� should be done. It would have been very difficult and expensive to sort this mess out in two countries using Lawyers.

There are no winners here, Chris might have had a win financially at the time, but he has paid dearly for Matts sufferings reputation wise, if he wants to make a post im sure he will. I have had to take time out of work as well as deal with the stress of it all in trying to sort something out. And Matt has waited 18 months for the money.

Housten

Chris has the extra money 100% of it.

I paid cash for the dagger. Then I paid for my own legal advice to deal with this mess, and on top of that I paid �232 pounds in charges to get the money to Matt. I also spent hours on my mobile to the US so I am also expecting a nice phone bill as well .

Thanks for the update mongo, I think it is clear you are a standup guy, and the villain in all of this rightly has a ruined rep beyond any hope of salvation.

I think you showed remarkable restraint that I myself am sure that I would not have been capable of.

quote:

Originally posted by Skynyrd:
Thanks for the update mongo, I think it is clear you are a standup guy.

I'll second that !

Shame on you, Chris Ailsby. I am truly dismayed by this whole sordid saga.

As some ancient Roman dead guy so succinctly put it:

�Whoever is detected in a shameful fraud is ever after not believed even if they speak the truth.�

Lynne

Mongo--thanks for filling in the blanks. Sorry for all the problems you have had with this deal and any doubts as to your honorable intentions. It's now clear you did the best you could. Wish you would have spoken up a bit earlier.

As for Mr. Aisby. Crime sure paid for him-big time. This guy should be banned and blacklisted everywhere.

He pretty much is banned evrywhere except here and stirnpanzer forum.

Mongo, thanks much. Glad to see at least one honorable man in this hobby.

Mongo you deserve a medal mate , Chris Ailsby R.I.P

This certainly has been interesting and an eye opener.

Just curious and wonder what you all think? I know, how many r's are in fat chance, but if Ailsby were to distribute those big profits back to Matt and or Mongo or both would he have a chance of redeeming his reputation or is he finish for good? That is if he still has the funds to do so.