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#126781 11/20/2005 10:48 PM
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Sorry Joe, I hadn't forgotten, just hadn't got around to sorting the pictures.

I do think this badge is very underated. They look quite plain in the hand, but once magnified they shine out.

Generally, we only see the ones made by Carl Poellath, but they were made buy other manufacturers as well. Lets see if we can find the others, please post them if you have them.

To start off here is the common Poellath.

Cheers
Don

Poellath_a.jpg (46.58 KB, 560 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126782 11/20/2005 10:54 PM
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Here's the unmarked 20 yr. I assume Poellath made all of the anniversary ones, but I don't know.

Cheers
Don

Kleingartner_20yr_a.jpg (66.61 KB, 537 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126783 11/20/2005 10:55 PM
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Unmarked 25 yr

Kleingartner_25yr_a.jpg (38.88 KB, 522 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126784 11/20/2005 11:02 PM
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Now for the variants.

W. Deumer. Noticable differences compared to the Poellath.

Deumer_a.jpg (48.53 KB, 501 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126785 11/20/2005 11:05 PM
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I narrowly missed this one a few weeks back, reputed to be marked Konr. Seiboth Gablonz Neisse.

Unfortunately, only the front shown, but again, noticable differences.

Cheers
Don

Konr_Seiboth_Gablonz_Neisse.jpg (11.62 KB, 515 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126786 11/21/2005 10:47 PM
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Here is my contribution.
Ferd. Wagner. Pforzheim
Obverse.

4.jpg (65.33 KB, 491 downloads)

<BR>
#126787 11/21/2005 10:49 PM
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Ferd. Wagner. Pforzheim
Reverse.

44.jpg (70.15 KB, 491 downloads)

<BR>
#126788 11/22/2005 10:26 PM
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Nice one Joe.

I wonder how many makers of these there were? I doubt that we will get any more posted Frown

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126789 11/22/2005 10:37 PM
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Thanks Don. I also appreciate the design of these small badges. You have assembled a nice collection.
I am in hopes there will be more contributors. Roll Eyes
I like the way you can post obverse and reverse images side by side. My photo fix program will not let me do that.

--dj--Joe


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#126790 11/27/2005 10:29 PM
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Well Don, it appears you were correct! Roll Eyes "It endeth here"! Frown

I will keep my eyes open for other examples.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126791 12/10/2005 11:39 PM
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Don, found this one today at the American Eagle Military Show in Totowa n.j. ......DAVE H

MVC-020F.jpg (48.95 KB, 424 downloads)
#126792 12/10/2005 11:39 PM
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Reverse

MVC-019F.jpg (48.69 KB, 421 downloads)
#126793 12/11/2005 10:56 AM
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Dave,

Thanks for posting the image, can you get a better shot of the front please?

This one worries me as the pin keeper is the type used on fakes. So far I have not seen one used on a pre 1945 badge. This could prove my theory that these have been faked as well Mad

The reverse matches well the known Frank & Reif shown below. Sorry for the poor images but they aren't mine & the badge was sold before I got to it Frown

Cheers
Don

M1799_1.jpg (30.22 KB, 405 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126794 12/11/2005 10:57 AM
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The front, note the curved edge to the wings on yours Dave. Is the head as detailed as on this one?

Cheers
Don

M1799.jpg (55.35 KB, 392 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126795 12/12/2005 09:44 PM
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Hi Don, thanks for your information,upon closer examination,,check where the word "deutscher" is,it is mispelled :deOtscher.....DAVE H

MVC-026F.jpg (49.24 KB, 373 downloads)
#126796 12/12/2005 10:11 PM
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My god, so it is! Eek Thanks for the extra pic, sorry that you've got a dummy there but I think we've learn't something from it.

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126797 12/28/2005 11:38 PM
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Don,
I know someone with Konr.Seiboth pin,is it worth $45.00?? DAVE H

#126798 12/29/2005 11:45 AM
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Obviously it would depend on it's condition, but if I felt that it was a good'n & in a nice condition, then I would jump at it for $45.

Get some snaps if you can & we'll take a peek.

Good luck Dave

Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126799 01/03/2006 08:59 PM
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Don, Here is the Konr. Seiboth.....DAVE H

MVC-001F.JPG (50.11 KB, 299 downloads)
#126800 01/03/2006 08:59 PM
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Reverse

MVC-002F.jpg (48.81 KB, 294 downloads)
#126801 01/03/2006 09:08 PM
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bottom reverse

MVC-008F.jpg (49.26 KB, 289 downloads)
#126802 01/05/2006 09:21 AM
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Thanks for posting it Dave.

As I suspected from the small picture I found of this makers badge, a very distinct style of eagle.

This is the first time that I've seen the reverse of these, I like the pin set up.

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126803 02/10/2006 03:10 PM
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Not sure what to make of this one.....

Frank & Reif.

Definitely not the bad fake encountered above by Dave H. Here are my observations.

The badge matches in size (w+h) to the other makes but is very heavy & thicker compared to the others.

I have a feeling that the eagle is possibly cast, there is a distict line on the edge in some places, between the neck & wing elbow/joint for instance.

Compared to the poor pictures I posted of a supposedly good one of this maker, the font used on the maker mark looks slightly different.

If this maker is a genuine one for these badges, then it would be the ideal candidate to fake because of the type of pin attachment utilised. Question is, is this an original, or is this a good fake on which Dave H's poor fake was based?

Either way, look closely at the spelling of Deutscher & you can see why the mistake was made on the one shown by Dave H.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Don

Kleingärtner_F_R_a.jpg (39.29 KB, 237 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126804 02/11/2006 12:17 AM
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Don, is the eagle on the Frank & Reif piece made of aluminum? If so, can you tell how it is attached to the badge?

--dj--Joe


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#126805 02/11/2006 04:14 PM
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I'm not totally sure of either answer.

The eagle:

is not made of the same dull material as the others. It is a shiny white metal, the whole badge (including the eagle) is non magnetic. The size if the eagle is exactly the same as the other manufacturers including depth, whereas the badge itself is thicker.

Attachment:

My initial thoughts were that it was glued/soldered in some way. However I'm not even sure about that now. The eagle is solidly attached, no play or movement to it. A fraction of a gap is visible between one wing & the badge on one side. But even with a high power loupe nothing can be seen inside.

However, if you look closely at the pin plate on the back, there are two small protruberances either side of the pin. Now these could be blobs of unmelted solder under the plate, or could they possibly be rivits?

There are two sets of guides either side of the pin at the end of the plate, but these are short & do not continue under the plate. If you hold the badge up to the light & look down the length of the pin, you can just see under the plate between the pin & back of the badge. It can be seen that the guides do not go any further, & that there are no other obsticles there. Unfortunately, you can not see what the two protruberances are either.

I dusted off the camera as the scanner sometimes distorts colour because of the bright light. I have also tried to show one of the protruberances & the guides.

First the eagle. Shiny white metal.

Cheers
Don

1.jpg (46.69 KB, 206 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126806 02/11/2006 04:20 PM
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One of the protruberances can just be seen in the centre of the yellow square, it's the lighter worn area.

2a.jpg (34.17 KB, 194 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126807 02/11/2006 04:23 PM
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A different angle. Can you see the slight "hill" between the edge of the plate & the centre where the pin sits.

3.jpg (29.67 KB, 192 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126808 02/11/2006 04:28 PM
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Finally one of the sets of guides at each end of the pin. These are short, approx 4mm in length & do not extend under the plate.

4.jpg (19.37 KB, 191 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126809 02/11/2006 05:46 PM
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Great photos. IMO the eagle would appear to be rivited under the pin plate.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126810 02/11/2006 05:58 PM
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That's my thought Joe.

Between you, me & any other people sad enough to be reading this thread Big Grin I'd love to take it apart to find out......

I think I'll keep an eye out for another. If the price is low enough I might just do it Eek

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126811 02/11/2006 06:18 PM
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Don, for me this is an interesting and informative thread! Smile
I wonder how the eagle is attached to the repro. Frank & Reif ? No room under that pin plate for rivets!

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126812 02/11/2006 11:36 PM
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V
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Excellent informative presentation!

#126813 03/19/2006 11:13 AM
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Sorry for bringing this one up to the top again. No news on the Frank & Reif yet.

However some of you know that I also collect portraits of badges in wear, failing that I hunt for mitglieds kartes/buchs showing the symbol. I find this sometimes helps me clarify that the badges did indeed exist during the period & aren't pure fantasy. For some time I've been hunting info for this organisation without any success. Considering how common the pins are, pictures & membership documents are rarer than hens teeth! I contacted all the doc collectors I know & none had ever seen one.

Last week I had some success as this isn't the paperwork area I've put a badge in the picture as an excuse Wink

Cheers
Don

Kleingärtner_doc_set_a.jpg (33.4 KB, 196 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126814 03/19/2006 03:53 PM
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Nice find Don! Somewhere I have seen a tinnie with a Kleingartner image. Will have to do some searching.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126815 03/19/2006 06:38 PM
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Thanks Joe, please do as I've never seen one.

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126816 03/22/2006 10:33 PM
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Still searching. Smile Since I am specifically searching for it, I of course can not find it. Probably have passed over it a couple of times. I'm sure it's an image of the badge on a flag.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126817 03/26/2006 02:31 PM
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Here it is. Smile

Kleingartner.jpg (39.55 KB, 165 downloads)

<BR>
#126818 03/26/2006 02:39 PM
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Excellent! Well done my friend, I've never seen one..... I'll have to keep my eye out for it Cool

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
#126819 06/30/2006 06:38 PM
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Don, some more Kleingartner examples to view in the following thread.

Link no longer valid.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
#126820 07/01/2006 12:51 PM
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Thanks for the link Joe, great to see the 50yr. Those babies are real hard to find, I only know of one other in a collection Cool

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
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