UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories German Military Uniform Forum Unpublished Luftwaffe Waffenfabe?

Other than collecting LW tunics, another real passion for me is collecting collar tabs. In my time in collecting, I have come across some undocumented waffenfarbe. Undocumented at least by my references(Angolia vol 1-2 and Davis set, vol 1-2.

I will start off with a set of light blue tabs that I bought from Bill Shea a couple of years ago. At first, I thought that they were faded medical tabs, until I did some comparisions...

I have been told by several experienced collectors that these rare tabs were used by supply and early on by the field police. Again, I have not been able to find this information published.

Notice the major color difference when compared to medical tabs. Notice the simularity to the Heer TSD boards. Absolutely no signs of fading on the tabs.

Here is a close up of the reverse side of the supply tabs. The scanner made the color a lot darker than reality. The color on the reverse side of the tab matches exactly to that of the obverse. Notice that these were in someone's photo album at some point in the past.

Next up, I have a set of orange tabs(not dark yellow or faded red) that came from Peter W at the Collector's Guild. Again, I have been informed by some very experienced collectors that these were for Field Police. I was even quoted an actual mandate:

Their original waffenfarbe was that of supply (light blue) (LV 43, No. 709 of 2 April 1943). By LV 43, No. 1115 of 3 June 1943, the color ws changed to orange.

This would be awesome as it would expain these two sets of tabs but the problem is that I cannot find it in print anywhere.

As you can see, these are most definately orange in color...

here is the back. It was made to be removed from the tunic. There is evidence that several of the snaps were present have been removed.

Now on to the hard stuff. Angolia states in Vol 1 of his Luftwaffe series that the Luftwaffe had carmine collar tabs for vetrinarian NCOs and EMs. I have never seen a set of these tabs nor have I seen them referenced anywhere else. Well, low and behold, I find these on Ebay...

The only strange thing is that many top collectors out there do not believe that there was actually a vetrinary waffenfarbe in the Luftwaffe.

The strange thing about these tabs(that I won with a lot of original tabs in the bid) is that they are piped as an officer candidate. That leaves two interesting thoughts...

1. Other than Angolia's reference to these tabs, is there any other proof of this field in the Luftwaffe?
2. This field was an NCO/EM field only... Why this tab have Officer Candidate Piping? I do not feel that the General Staff(same waffenfarbe) accepted Officer Candidates?

Here is the back... please forgive the crappy edit(for size)

Now for the real stumper.. I received this set with a large lot of LW insignia last year. There were about 50 peices to include some high end items that proved to all be good. In the middle of the stack was this pair of GRAY collar tabs. They seem to be original in all manners except for the color does not match anything anyone has ever heard of. These are a real stumper as everything, material wise, seems to be period.

Despite the purplish hue the scanner gives, these are actually smoke grey in color.

Any help or clarification on these would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

Paul,I believe the light blue tabs are from the DLV.

Anyone?

Paul
The grey one's could be for the Wetterdienst, as the nebenfarbe color can vary from a bluegrey to a grey

NCM board for the Wetterdeinst.

Great Thread.Thanks for starting this thread PaulR.Sorry I dont have anything to add but this is an excellent thread for info.

Thanks for the encouragement Dave. I still have had no luck in tracking any regulations down on the above posted.

Larry,

Those are some great boards. I wish I could help you... could you find them in Angolia's Books?

Hi Paul not looking for help here, but this could be what your grey tabs are for the lower set of SB's are for thr Wetterdienst.

Opps... I am sorry about that... I misread your post.

That would be an interesting possiblity!(wetterdienst tabS).

I am not in Uniforms but naturally I do have several references on them out of the period. Perhaps I can shed some light on one or the other question doen here:
The "Deutsche Uniformen" (german uniforms) from the Verlag Moritz Ruhl-Leipzig (unfortunately without any date inside) shows the following schedules inside:

2

I have to add that the troop color schemes might not be 1:1 to real as printing colors obviously is not as easy as it looks like. I have seen these color schemes in period references in slight color varations.
Also the color schemes did change during the period. Some colors vanished, other were added.

I do think that the first patch (the light blue one) is obviously the Luftwaffenreseve troop color due to first schedule, right row, third from top.
The second one (the orange-brown) seems to be for the air-communication troop (first schedule middle/second from top; second schedule last row far left and far right ones).
The one with the light grey "Nebenfarbe" (additional color; mostly added to green as here in the 1st Ltn shoulder straps) obviously see first schedule, right row, 4th from top "Officers (E) light grey as additional color (E might stand for supplement troops but I am not sure on this).
In "Hettler - (translated)Uniforms of the German Army 39/40" this additional light grey troop color is not mentioned. Either it has vanished before or it was established afterwards of the Ruhl edition. Also there is mentioned a goldbrown for "Offiziere z.D" (whatever this means) and no (more?) orange-brown.
These patches shown here for sure have troop colors which were not used often or only for a short period therefore they seem to be seldom encountered and there is few information.

Have found an additional chapter in the "Hettler..." wherein the bluegrey additional color is for Wetterdienst troops. You may decide yourself if the additional color on the 1st Ltn straps is "light grey" or "blue grey" in real. All very confusing in my opinion. Even in original references.

Found purpur-red and bordeaux-red in connex with justice but this only for higher grades with bullion bird no enlisted variant mentioned.

I just saw a civilian Luftwaffe so called "elevator operator" visor hat at Bob Johnsons table at the MN show, and it stuck me that it was the carmine color. Not sure, but it might be another avenue to explore.

I would love to find one of those books... are they difficult to locate?

Paul

There is a reprint of the "Hettler..":

http://www.amazon.de/Deutschen-Wehrmacht-einschlie%DFli...waffen/dp/3931533379

or here:
http://patzwall-verlag.de/product_info.php?info=p2_Eberhard-Hettler.html

Originals are more difficult to locate and much more expensive. But, please, keep in mind that all these (originals and reprints) are written IN GERMAN!!!

sorry, I do not know from where you could get the "Deutsche Uniformen" (german uniforms) from the Verlag Moritz Ruhl-Leipzig. It is a very small booklet, some of the pages (but not the full booklet) are added in pocket-calendars of e.g. the police or in "REIBERT" troop-duty-books out of the certain period.
Hope this helps.

Thank you. I shall get one of the reprints.

It looks to be a great resource book.

Regards
Paul

Gray tabs

UPDATE!!!!

Thanks to the eagle eyes of Garth Thompson, I received this PM today...

"Paul,
I might have a possible ID for your gray EM tabs. I was watching a color film on the Polesti, Romania raid by the USAAC last night. They included some color footage of the Flack crews around the refinery and stated the guns were manned by Romanian troops. Pictured were troops in LW uniforms but they had GRAY collar tabs. There were two clear shots of the gun crews in both the crew had tabs that were not Flack red but appeared to be a gray color. Unlike the Army volunteers almost no reference has been done on foreign volunteers in the LW and their insignia....

Just a thought,
Garth"

I will contact the channel to ask for a DVD of the program.

Thanks

I have contacted the Military Channel(almost a week ago) and have yet to hear back from them