UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum please advice on Alcoso KM

would appreciate any feedback on this particular Alcoso makers mark, pommel and scabbard. Consistent with early Alcoso KM daggers, possibly transitional?

I believe alcoso used this trademark from about 1919 on in to the early 30's as I too have a 1921 model flaming ball top navy with the black grip,(mourning period).The scabbard is a lighting bolt style with the bands as yours. I also have another unmarked alcoso navy with a pommel very similar to the style of yours. It is the type that snaps into the scabbard.It too has the rope bands on a lightning bolt scabbard. Most likely this too was converted to the nazi period. Hope this helps.

Gustavo, Is that an army dagger grip or is it jut lacking the wire?

I would say that judging by the stress fractures and the circular graining this is an early ivory grip.

the seller claims this is ivory, yes. The dagger was allegedly worn for over 20 years, and it has part(s)? from the pre- NS Reichmarine

Gustavo this is very true with early navies and is why I like them so much. They show their transition through each era to fit in so to speak with the times. Would be nice to see more of the dagger overall.

Thanks Ed, does your early KM grip look like this one?

The two navies I mentioned earlier have the black grip and the other is a very burnt orange color. I don't have an ivory gripped navy dagger. I'm looking for one that is period ivory and has an original silver bullion portepee that is tarnished to a golden brown and has been there all its life! Tough to find.

I've owned one Ivory grip KM in the past and other then being ivory it resembeled the normal Km grip. This one looks more to me like an army grip.

There are almost endless types and combinations of Navy daggers as many combinations of parts from prevous eras were commonly used to upgrade to a more current configuration.
There were also a lot more "custom" pieces--more than any other type dagger because there apparently were no real restrictions to the outside appearance of a piece--if it was German Navy-it was OK.
There were also many types of grips. This grip looks fine and is no doubt horn or ivory. It is much older than the rest of the dagger IMO because of the deep yellowing and the extensive cracking. No Army grip here. The grip may have come from a much older family piece.
There are also "standard" Navy pieces that conform to the characteristics of the standard piece according to the era.
To conclude-If you want to collect German Navy pieces-there is a lot to learn-but big rewards.

Thanks all for your feedback. In the end I decided not to buy this piece, as I could not have complete peace of mind on other issues.

My due diligence as to the dealer and the piece in question, its face value that is, all returned positive results. This is very good news for Kai Winkler, as few dealers have nearly 100% good feedback...

The thing thats interesting about this piece is that Mr Winkler writes in his site that he bought this from the son of U Boat captain Werner von Schmidt, commander of U-116 among others, and later flotilla commander at Kiel until the end of the war. I dug up some photos of the man from the web. The name is non professionally scratched on the scabbard, and the piece would be accompanied by a COA from Herr Winkler. If this is all so, this is a bargain at �1,450. The info on this man just from the web is very very good, including photos of the single British ship sunk by U116, more photos of von Schmidt etc.

von Schmidt being greeted upon his return from a mission on U116

Just as a reminder-posting photos from dealer's sites without stating up front where it came from is a clear violation of the code of conduct. You can't post something for evaluation and then just add at the end after all is said and done who owns it even if you compliment them.

youre right, i should have known this, apologies