UBB.threads

WE NEED TO MAINTAIN A CURRENT & PERIODICALLY UPDATED LISTING OF ANY SS RZM�S � WHICH WERE "NOT LISTED" IN TW�S SS BOOK:

TW�s SS Book is the �Guide� that we all go by for Identifying & Comparing our various SS Daggers. I believe that TW lists 44 Individual RZM 'Makers' on p 162 of his Book.. (TW did state, I believe, that he went through the records of the prior 10 years of Sales of RZM's - in compiling his list. He also stated elsewhere in the book, that essentially..."...No List is Complete..."

Also, as was pointed out in another Thread, it is most reasonably likely that fewer SS RZM�s were produced than Maker Marked SS Daggers. So, "IF" the SS RZM�s are indeed rarer � then they would be expected to show up in sales, much more infrequently. Thus a number of �Non Listed� SS RZM�s may still be out there in the woodwork.

Since the publication of TW�s Book we have additionally, to my knowledge, Identified the following "Non Listed" SS RZM's:

1. M7/2....���..��.���(? Maker)
2. M7/5......���...��.�(? Maker)
3. M7/83......���.��..�(? Maker)
4. RZM M7/56 .....��..�Carl D. Scharff
5. RZM M7/67/1940 SS�..Gott. Hammesfahr
6. RZM 7/72 1942 ��..��Robert Kaldenbach.
7. SS 285/38 ....���.��(? Maker)

Any others 'Non Listed' SS RZM's that you guys are aware of? Dave/dblmed

�Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

Paul Hogle asked that I Post the �un listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS .....Gott. Hammesfahr Example. I acquired this SS RZM from Bill Shea about 2 years ago - as soon as it hit the listing! Dave/dblmed

# 2 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

# 3 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

# 4 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

# 5 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

# 6 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

# 7 - �Non Listed� RZM M7/67 1940 SS - Gott. Hammesfahr

"Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf

Has some �Early� characteristics such as the crossguards are solid Nickel Silver and are internally stamped P A (both crossguards).. But not I, II, or III markings. The tang is stamped with the letter H with the C and A above and below (inside the H) which is correct for a Schaaf. Grip eagle appears to also be Nickel Silver. The scabbard is the painted variety with plated fittings. So, this RZM, like many is a �mix & match� of early & later components. Date of manufacturing is unknown for the M 7/56. Dave/dblmed

#2 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#3 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#3AAA - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#4 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#5 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#6 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#7 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#8 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

#9 - "Non Listed" SS RZM M 7/56 C.D. Schaaf
Txs, Dave/dblmed

OK, Add On your examples of the "Non Listed" SS RZM Daggers - and we'll have a Great Reference thread regarding these RARE Daggers!
Txs, Dave / dblmed

I had noted all of those on my list. I need to check my list against Tom's book.

Dave

Dave,

Congrats on starting this thread (I'll be printing it out and place it in TW book)

And may i say that you have an outstanding collection there thumbsup

Cheers,
Ibrahim,
Singapore.

So far:
1. M7/2....���..��.���Emil Voos Waffenfabrik
2. M7/5......���...��.�Carl Julius Krebs
3. M7/83......���.��..�Richard Pluemacher Sohn
4. RZM M7/56 .....��..�Carl D. Scharff
5. RZM M7/67/1940 SS�..Gott. Hammesfahr
6. RZM 7/72 1942 ��..��Robert Kaldenbach.
7. SS 285/38 ....���.��(? Maker)
Here are a few more others have told me exist but I have never seen, so possibles?
M7/13 543/40/SS........Arthur Sch�ttelhofer & Co
M7/98........................Ernst Erich Witte
M7/183....���.��(? Maker)

1052 examples exist but couldn't be identified until a few years ago when a couple of tagged examples surfaced. IMO this number can now be ascribed to Lauterjung.
Jim

Jim,

You are right about the 1052 code being unknown until an unissued dagger complete with a tag turned up. Here is a picture. I usually call it Puma but the company is Lauterjung & Sohn.

Great info!

Tony asked me a question this am that got me going thru my archives. There is another small detail that should be captured in this thread. IMHO the Luneschloss RZM's may appear with or without the 1936 designation shown in Wittmann's book, (pg 163)

Paul is correct, again.

Thanks
Dave

CAN ANYBODY POST A LIST THAT SHOWS THE RARITY OF THE DAGGER MAKERS?TOP TO BOTTOM.

Jim never seen this attempted....

JIM .........Good Question for sure

1) for SS 33 EM's Maker Marked: TW does a great job in dividing the Makers into 'rarity groups' in his book.

2) for SS RZM's (Transitionals & RZM Only), I am not aware of any 'Rarity Ranking' having been done?

3) However, from what I've learned in these related threads is that actually FEWER 'SS RZM' Daggers were made than SS Maker Marked Daggers!

Since we don't know the Quantity of the individual 50+ RZM Makers/Models listed in TW Book (or the 8-10 additional RZM Models that we've added in this thread)....guestimating RZM Rarity would be quite difficult to ascertain.

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
1. DEALERS: could look back through their sales of SS RZM's and break them down by Maker/Model. (But, some would be double and triple counted - as resales took place.

2. COLLECTORS: as an interested SS Dagger Collector group, we could start an 'RZM Maker/Model' type of Poll Thread - and see what examples our membership have? (Much like the thread on Gau Marks for SA's). It should contain, IMHO:
a. RZM Maker / Model 'Numbering' on Blade
b. Comment 'if' Grip Eagle is NS, Alum or of Pot metal.
c. Comment 'if' Crossguards are NS or Plated
d. Comment 'if' Scabbard is Anodized or Painted
e. Comment 'if' Scabbard Metal is NS or Plated

My belief is that we'd find some very, very interesting combinations - within the RZM's - and mostly for ALL of the known right reasons.

It would be a 'non-scientific' Poll... BUT it would be much better than where we are now - in our RZM Knowledge base.... Txs, Dave/dblmed

RARITY GROUPS IN TOM WITTMANNS SS BOOK WHAT PAGE? I SEEN IT BEFORE BUT CAN NOT FIND IT NOW.THANKS

JIM ..... TW lists the Relative Rarity of Maker Markered SS M33's starting on page 15.

Houston Just Posted This 'Un-Listed' One!
SS M7/95 RZM1222/39 SS

"..Here is another one--It's in the GDC classifieds. Rare J. Schmidt & Sohne
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955..."

I'm Posting for Houston to save him the time. ...Txs Dave/dblmed

So as we dont loose them can you transfer the rest of Houstons photos of this important dagger to the SS forum?

Dave,

Although this one is not listed in TW's book, it would have been included with the RZM daggers, not the early makers.

Dave

As we get older our eyes get tired
1222/39 SS is in Wittys list of RZM markings on page 162 and
correctly attributed to Schmidt

AJ ....... Great Eyes!!!!!!! Yep, it is right there in the 2nd column.

So the 1222/39 SS was an already listed SS RZM Maker by TW.

The 'Hunt Goes On' for more examples of TW "Un-Listed RZM" Daggers. Dave/dblmed

Ooooppps.

One of these days I need to reconcile the list in the book with the one I maintain.

I have seen that 1222 code only twice before, so it is rare. Once was a dagger in a chained scabbard.

Dave

Sorry about that. I did not see it either.

Houston could you start a thread on 1222/39Ss and post you pics of the dagger so as the forum has it recorded as it will vanish eventually from the for sale listings
Thanks in anticipation Tony

OK--It's there for you.