UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Rohm Dagger Forum MY NEW SA. ROHM

I am not even involved in this aside from posting some pictures for someone! You got something you want to say? 3FL

Mr. Moderator was around earlier but, Of course, he will let something like that slide from one of the "Clique" and be conveniently absent! 3FL

Apology? You're a riot....

I wasn't laughing! And I just e-mailed Dave about it also. (Expletive Edited)

I ask you again. You got something you want to say to me? 3FL

SKYLINE, ALL I SAID WAS THERE ARE PLENTY OF MAKER MARKS WITH DIFFERENCES GENERALLY SPEAKING.NO NEED TO COME DOWN ON 3FL.HE SEEMS LIKE A NICE GUY.PAT,I NOW SEE WHAT YOUR SAYING,THE INSCRIPTION IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.IF IT IS ETCHED IN STONE ABOUT THERE BEING ONLY ONE TEMPLATE FOR THE ROHM INSCRIPTION THAN YOUR RIGHT.ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT ? JOE

Louie... I've seen the error of my ways. I apologize. The thought of you making a knockoff Rohm that could fool anyone except a blind chimpanzie is totally ridiculous. I should be flogged and forced to wear a hair shirt. However, I'm sticking to the smoking cornsilk theory...

Fair Enough, I accept your apology. By the way, Did you ever figure out how to re-Blue those SS scabbards without the Selenium smell giving them away? Good luck with that one! Well, Ta Ta, Gotta go! I am finishing drop-forging some Himmler Blades!

3FL

Yes I did! Your suggestion of a number 5 electric blue "Mr. Brightie" felt pen works great! When people see these they think there was a luft division of the SS!

Oh Pat, Just to set the record straight. You need to go over and call Denny Roach, Mike Carrol, and Sturmbrigade Liars while you are at it. They discuss the Seilheimer Dog logo on an Army! Mike even says he owned one! But Craig Gottlieb says he owns it now! Cadprof7 even posted a picture of his there. You Would think THESE Guys would know enough not to post pics of things that don't exist!:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...680075863#6680075863

So you need to go straighten them out, so I don't feel picked on!

Skyline, Glad it worked for you! But, Then again, If you weren't so good at making the "Story fit the Blade", It probably wouldn't!

OOP's, I meant to say ROY Carrol, Not Mike Carrol, above! Mike Carrol was I guy I went to Law School with! Wasn't awake yet! Dang, I can't even work up a good insult correctly anymore! Getting old is Hell! 3FL

OK, Listen, Seriously, Stand Down! I sincerely hope you know that 99% of the time I just do this for fun and games. And I would hope it is the same for the rest of you guys. But you crossed the line a bit last night, Lakeside, and you know it. I would never truly question your honesty and you shouldn�t impugn mine. You don�t know of ANYONE or any TIME I have EVER tried to seriously pass anything off on anyone that wasn�t right! I am not a dealer, but I do sell things occasionally and, when I do, I give a 100% lifetime warranty on originality and a 100% Money back guarantee! If you can honestly say different you need to produce the evidence. I am going to assume there was a sincere apology somewhere in what you said and give you the benefit of the doubt. I Truly have no ill feelings toward anyone on this forum and, hopefully, haven�t engendered any. I really would like to attend the MAX show and beat �.Uh�Meet You and break�Uh �Shake your hand! Now, shall we play on? 3FL

Louis,
I am confused... I thought you said that you had nothing to do with this dagger other than posting the pics.
If that is indeed the case, then you must be a modern repro-robin hood! Because you are defending this fake (and it's new owner) with such unexplainable and apparently random zeal!
"He doth protest too much"
About 6 months ago I had posted my VERY convincing Voos T.D. Gravity knife, the maker mark is (I now know) bad. Yes, I was taken by a bad maker mark, it happens.
But where was repro-robin hood then? Why did you not post 42 posts saying that I must just have a rare maker, never before seen! 100% Legit! (Mine would have been a LOT easier to defend than this Seilheimer "Rohm"!)

I need you on that one man! Where were you?

But it is OK, no hard feelings, because in the end I learned the TRUTH, I was taken. And no matter what anyone says to the contrary, or how many times they post it, the TRUTH is that the mark is BAD.

Louis, You have always been very cool to me, and I believe you when you say that you had nothing to do with this piece. I would be dissappointed to learn otherwise.
Take care.
Johnny

Leaving the politics and arguments aside, I want to share my recent experiences with the "new" batch of Rohm fakes. In a nutshell, there is someone somewhere who is etching fake Rohm inscriptions onto real SA daggers. However, it is very easy to tell, in my opinion, which daggers these are. The Rohm inscription is being done either with a laser, or with an etching solution that is weaker than was used during the period. The result is a much shallower etch than on the originals. If you obtain a known original, and one of these spurious pieces, and run your fingernail along the etch, you will immediately "feel" the difference. As for Rohm inscriptions with very minor variations, they DO exist, especially on cottage maker examples. On those cottage maker examples, one should judge the dagger as a whole, and not merely based upon the etch. Do keep in mind that on "cottage maker" Rohms, you can and should expect to receive a price break, if the dagger in question does have a "non-matching" etch (compared to an Eickhorn or a Pack). I would not condemn outright the Rohm at the top of this thread, but I do see serious problems with it that would keep me from buying it, and would probably keep me from spending time pursuing it. The chances are slim that its original, but I'm always open to changing my mind. Remember, the fakers are NOT faking Eickhorns and Packs.

3FL
Please leave my name out of this "discussion" whatever the reason for using it, pro or con. I had rather be left alone if you don't mind...........

Hi Johnny, Joe is a buddy of mine and it just bothers me sometimes when you guys on here come blustering around and talking in "absolutes" all the time. There are a lot of ways to express an opinion, but it just seems to me that some of the people on here live for the "Gotchas"! I don't really believe it is always intentional or conscious, and may even be expressions of sincere intent to try to help. I wasn't really so much defending this particular dagger as just trying to soften the blows a bit and introducing the possibility that some more research might have been in order. That's all! If you go back and look, a lot of what I said was directed against such "absolute" statements. I have been playing with this stuff for a day or two and have learned to Never say stuff like "So and So NEVER made That!" I am not so smart that I have that kind of information about these makers! It seems like, at least in my case, that as soon as I open my mouth and say something like that, it jumps up and bites me! So I try real hard not to do it. If there were statements like that being made about your Item, I MAY have been willing to jump in and say something, but I am NOT doing it so much anymore because I always seem to end up all by myself in these arguments which just seem like common sense to me. I have been burned before myself, (imagine that!) but I think it is not very kind for people to take such glee in pointing it out to you! 3FL

Hi D. J., Does that mean you agree that Seilheimer NEVER used the Dog Logo on anything except Bayonets and Swords? You just happened to be in thread I was refering to. 3FL

Believe what you wish, BUT Leave me out of this stuff, Please........

Done! 3FL

Here are some photos of MY Full Rohm if anybody cares to comment!

PAT, YOU HAVENT ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOUT THERE BEING ONLY ONE TEMPLATE.IF THERE IS ONLY ONE THEN I THINK I SHALL RETURN THIS DAGGER. JOE

Louie, I was about the first to post a response to this thread and I assure you, I took no pleasure in my less-than-positive view. Again, I have also been burned and I know it sucks.
Your Rohm looks very nice! Almost new! But again I am no expert. Regardless, congrats on having such a piece in your collection. I don't have an SS Rohm yet but my day too will come (I hope! )

Craig- Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Joe- There were more than 1 tamplate as I understand. However they very only in the slightest degree. Yours is much further from "standard".
I would again stress that you send this piece for an inspection and appraisal. Considering the potential value of such a rare piece, it would be a wise measure of security, especially should you ever consider selling it.
Good luck to you.
Johnny

Joe...Are you even reading these post, you have had one guy say he thinks its right....EVERYONE else that has posted DOESNT like it, if you like it KEEP it.People have told you what they see wrong with it.

Louie,

I just arrived from a business meeting and read the thread and completely resent the fact that you've said that I should call Denny Roach or Mike Carrol as LIARS.
What the hell is wrong with you ?
I'm merely giving my opinion on a Rohm dagger, which I feel certain is fake and what do I get in return, a slap on the head.
I'm just trying to help your friend from making a BIGGGGGGGG mistake.
How many red flags to you need to understand that it is a complete fake ?
That maker marked NEVER DID EXIST for on SA's or SS's blade, NOT for other edged weapons.
I never said that this trademark did not exist but simply stated that they DID NOT EXIST on SA/SS blades...........that's all folks.
There was 1 Master template as far as I know and they were all made based on this Master plate, and there shouldn't therefore have any differences in the inscription, other than minute, very minute differences.
Read the following thread about templates.
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/477091573/...110092873#4110092873

Joe, I'm sorry to say this but your's is wayyyyyy out of line and the differences are much too large to be an original Rohm blade.
Trust me, there isn't the smallest possibility that this Rohm could be real and you don't need to be an expert to see it ( which I'm not by the way ).

Louie,

Your SS Rohm seems original and I don't see any obvious red flags.

Pat, If I mis-read your statment when you said the dog Logo ONLY appeared on Bayonets and swords, you have my deepest apology. But that is the way I read it. I also appreciate your wanting to help Joe. But it sometimes seems that we, yes, I include myself, are too callous in how we express our opinions to somebody who may have just been stung pretty bad $$$ and it might appear we are ganging up on them. I know That I sometimes walk away feeling more stupid than I should when I may have missed something. 3FL

Oh, Thanks! Glad you like the SS! 3FL

Louie,

No hard feeling but sometimes I do get carried away and yes, I do like your SS Rohm and such a beauty is still missing from my collection.
Congrats !

...there is someone somewhere who is etching fake Rohm inscriptions onto real SA daggers...



Isn't that happening for over 50 years now?

...As for Rohm inscriptions with very minor variations, they DO exist...

I would call that: extremely bad news for this forum! But... excellent news for all the owners of the "not so perfect" full R�hm blades! Some serious dagger value just got created!

3FLouie,
That dagger looks great on those pics! Can you share some close-ups of the scabbard, the grip and the crossguards near the rune?
We could learn something here!

Pat,
Don't worry you can get your perfect SS full R�hm as soon as you have the money ready. There are plenty out there you know, the SS-men were not that loyal after all so it seems... Which maker would you prefer anyway?

Best greetings,

Herman

The Selheimer 'dog' logo was also used on Army daggers as well as the 'PS' logo. I think - not 100% certain - that it was the later of the two marks and is hard to find.

Dave

Yes, the dog logo is good on Heers, but rare.
As a side note if anyone comes across one they are required by law to contact me immediately w/ fair pricing.
That's just the law and I don't want to see anyone get in any trouble.

HI ALL, JUST TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW THE DAGGER IS BEING SHIPPED BACK TOMORROW.I APPRECIATE EVERYBODYS OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT AND FEEL THAT I HAVE LEARNED ALOT.MY SPECIAL THANKS TO 3F LOUIE FOR STEPING UP TO PLATE FOR ME AND PAT AND OTHERS FOR THEIR EXPERTISE.AS FOR SKYLINE THATS A DIFFERENT STORY. JOE.

quote:

Originally posted by 3-finger Louie:
Oh Pat, Just to set the record straight. You need to go over and call Denny Roach, Mike Carrol, and Sturmbrigade Liars while you are at it. They discuss the Seilheimer Dog logo on an Army! Mike even says he owned one! But Craig Gottlieb says he owns it now! Cadprof7 even posted a picture of his there. You Would think THESE Guys would know enough not to post pics of things that don't exist!:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...680075863#6680075863

So you need to go straighten them out, so I don't feel picked on!

Feel free to pick on me all you like, i have of course seen the Dog Logo PS in circle and PS in triangle on a number of TR edged weapons - with the exception of SA daggers. On SA daggers i have ever only seen PS in the circle. I have seen the same configuration of Dog logo and Rohm inscription before on an SS dagger on Militariaweb (now militaria 321).

Sturmbrigade, Just curious, This one has been put to bed and returned to the seller, I think. You say you did see a similar configuration on Militariaweb? Seilheimer with a Rohm inscription? Did you get any feeling as to whether it looked Right or not? Like I said, Just curious. Good to see you! 3FL

Hi Louie - yeah i realise its done and dusted so to speak, i thought i would just comment on what i had seen in the past. To me its looks very very similar right down to the sharp centre ridge and spacing. Also the seller was from Poland (not im not having a crack at polish ppl). Cross grain was similar to this one as well.
I have also seen a non - rohm version, but it was horrid and the maker mark etch was as wobbly as drunken sailor on a zimmer frame with 3 legs!
I collect Seilheimer stuff so i try to keep an eye out for the rarer stuff, but as you know PS has been heavily reproduced since the end of the war - etched bayo's in particular.
just my 2 cents.

You guys crack me up. Think about it.After 60 years and tens of thousands of SA and SS daggers showing up in collections, all of a sudden not only an SA but an SS dagger show up with an unknown makers mark on them, super rare enough but wait not if that isnt enough there FULL rohms not ground or partials but Full. Gee guys whats are the odds of that.

Thanks Sturmbrigade, And you are in OZ Right? I think some of the guys were speculating about where this one might have originated. That seller was from Poland. Thanks again, man.

Your most welcome Louie

Rick
The answer is: Somewhere between slim and none........