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I JUST AQUIRED THIS SA ROHM AND WANTED TO SHARE IT WITH YOU. JOE
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SORRY THE PICTURES ARE TOO SMALL,ILL TRY TO ADJUST THEM JOE
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"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Hi Joe Linge,the maker mark on your dagger is the wrong mark for an SA dagger,its mainly found on bayonets and swords,the maker mark I have posted is the SA mark, Plus I do'nt think they were Rohm makers, nats http://members.lycos.nl/stantheman/
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I may regret saying this but... I don't like the looks of this one. I am NO expert, I may well be wrong. As long as you are happy with it Joe, that's all that counts. Sorry to be the first to post on it and have "bad news". Maybe someone who knows more than me (most anyone  ) can give an opinion. Good luck, Johnny
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system! 
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No doubt about it !
100% complete fake and actually a very bad reproduction.
Not even close !
Hope you can get your money back.
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Joe, FWIW, This is what I see, without any preconceptions. Blade looks very nice with good Crossgrain, except for some runner marks, The Motto, Dedication, and Maker mark all look consistent in depth and color. Crossguard to blade fit is good. I have seen that same maker mark on an SA and an SS in the past, and on an Army dagger I think! So it wasn't just on Bayonets. The condition throughout looks all the same. That is a Super rare Combo that I have never seen, but I am not going to just dismiss it out of hand just because I have never seen it. Looks fine to me! If You let these guys shake you, send me an E-mail! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Joe, Can you break it down and take a pic showing the tang and internals? Send me a pic like you did the others and I will post it, Thanks! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Nats, I may have to give you that one! But, I am almost sure I have seen that mark on both an SA and an SS! I am positive I have seen this same mark on an SA and an Army! Seems like I saw the SS in an old Whittman Catalog. I will see if I still have it. More later! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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As I said, the Rohm inscription is 100% fake. Anyone that claims that this Rohm is authentic, never had a Rohm blade in his hands. It doesn't even come close to an original one. No offence intended but you can see it from a mile away that the Rohm engraving is completely bogus.  Will post a pic of an original one once I get home and you'll see how different they both are. Get your money back and run away as fast as you can.
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This maker marked also never made any SA blades.
There is another Paul Seilheimer that did produced an SA blade but it is another one with the "P S" maker marked and NOT the "dog holding the sword".
The blade, aside from the fake Rohm inscription, is also fake.
Please, just notice the high ridge central line on the blade. They didn't make those types of high ridge blade on early maker marked but only on late RZM type ( after 1936 ).
This dagger has so many red flags that it is almost funny.
That's all folks !
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To my knowledge, Joe, no SA or SS daggers were made with that trademark. Sorry. In addition, I agree with the comments about the shape of the blade and the crossgrain.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Dave
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Sorry Nats, There is nothing by Gailen in that link! Am I missing something, or did you post the wrong link? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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SO DOES THAT MEAN IF SOMEONE FINDS A NEVER SEEN BEFORE DAGGER THAT ITS NO GOOD ?3FL SAID THAT HES SEEN ONE IN THE PAST.IF NO ONE HAS ONE TO COMPARE IT TO HOW CAN YOU SAY ITS FAKE.TOM JOHNSON AND MANY OTHERS THINK THERE ARE MANY UNEXPLORED DAGGERS OUT THERE.EACH DAGGER MAKER HAS ITS OWN CHARACTERISTICS.EXPLAIN TO ME HOW YOU CAN SAY FAKE BY LOOKING AT PICTURES.I HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND APPRECIATE ALL COMENTS. JOE
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PAT, I CANT SEE IT FROM A FOOT AWAY CAN YOU ENLIGHTEN ME. MANY THANKS. JOE
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Joe, Here's your enlightment ! Like I said, I've seen better repros out there. Please, notice the letter "T" on the word Ernst and also the last 2 letters in the word Rohm. Pretty obvious ! No need to get so touchy either as we are only trying to help you out. No doubts about it and there is no possible variables or "special" blade...............it is 100% fake.
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You know guys, I am holding a Rohm dagger by F. Dick in my hand right now! Is it a fake? I have never seen another one and he is not listed as a Rohm maker either. But it looks fine and meets all of what I understand is the criteria for originality. One thing I have really learned over the years of collecting this stuff is that the more you learn the more you should realize how little you really do know. Now Joe, I wouldn't go to the walls on yours because I haven't held it in my hand and really Looked at or had it apart, but I think from looking at the pics that it looks OK to me. I, personally, can't say I see any radical departures from the style or workmanship of the dedication from your pics like Patrice says he can. But he hasn't said enough about what he feels he can see to let me make comparisons. I have 5 Rohm Daggers sitting here in front of me, one is mine and the others belong to another person, and comparing them to the pictures of yours, I would say they are either all fakes or all OK. Tom Johnson would not be happy with me if I decided they were all fakes since I know that 2 of the ones I am holding were sold by him. Mine is not from him, I can't play in that league! I am not really challenging anyone, and have no vested interest in this one way or the other. It is just that that is my Opinion. 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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I'm Sorry Patrice, From what I can see of yours, it just looks like you wrote the dedication on it with a sharpie! I see no depth to the etching at all! Are we supposed to be amazed by something? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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1.jpg (22.91 KB, 692 downloads) #1
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Louie,
This one came from Brian Madearer and was authenticated by Gailen David and Craig Gottlieb.
It is also impossible to fake such a blade made by Henckel as they are very "special".
First, their maker marked are much lower toward the lower crossguard as compared to a none Rohm.
Secondly, all the Henckel Rohm daggers have that unique Gau mark written "BO" on the far right of their lower crossguard.
Nobody can duplicate that, unless you can find a plain blade and than etch a lower maker marked and than find a set of unmarked crossguards and write the Gau mark "BO" on the far right.
I mean c'mon, let's be serious here.
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OK, I took the liberty to do this! Here are the words side by side. Patrice, Please explain the difference! I try to keep an open mind. 
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Frank Zappa
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OOPs, I didn't expect it to come out so small! let me try again.
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Here,s a picture with a flash and you can better appreciate the debt of the inscription.
I agree that the etching is hard to see when I'm not using any flash but it was done on purpose, to better appreciate the differences.
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NATS, WHY IS IT THE WRONG MAKER MARK ?IF YOU WERE MAKING ROHM DAGGERS WOULDNT YOU PUT A DIFFERENT MARK ON IT THEN ON A PLAIN SA ?THERE ARE PLENTY OF MAKER MARKS WITH DIFFERENCES,SUCH AS ADOLF VOLKER (2)ALCOSO(3) EICKHORN(3)F.DICK(1)FOR SA (1)FOR ROHM DAGGERS JACOBS&CO.(2)TIGER(2)WKC(5)ETC.DO YOU AGREE OR NOT ? JOE.
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Hopefully! 
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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OK, This is joe's and yours for comparison! Man, I fail to see any appreciable differences! What am I missing? Please? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Hi Joe,you could be right,as you say most of the Rohm daggers have different makers marks,and closer to the xguards to make room for the dedication.I'am no expert,I can only go on what I have seen,and I have never seen a rohm dagger by that maker.you should email you photos to Gailen and see what he says,Good luck I hope you are right,Regards nats
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Granted, there is a darker burnish in yours. But that varies trmendously between makers.
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Louie,
The "T" on the Ersnt and the "R" on the Rohm and the "m" in the last letter of the word Rohm and the horizontal bar on top of the word Rohm are way out of line and do not match any known "textbook" Rohm inscription.
It is also the same with the rest of the whole inscription.
Will post pic of the whole inscription and you'll see many differences.
You have to remember that there was only 1 known template for the Rohm inscription and they should therefore ALL be the same.........NO EXCEPTION !!!!!
There is no variables in any Rohm blades.
Even if the Rohm inscription was original, which isn't the case, the maker marked DOES NOT EXIST ON SA'S OR SS'S AND THERE IS NO KNOWN ORIGINAL.
Even if the trademark did exist, the blade is still wrong, having a high center ridge which CANNOT BE POSSIBLE on an early blade.
Gailen, Craig or anyone with little of experience in Rohm's will tell you that this is a complete fake.
And as I've said again, this is not even a good repro and I've seen much, much better fakes out there.
I'm not much of a computer wizard but could somone be capable of putting side by side, my full inscription with his ?
The full inscription is so different from an original one that it should now be pretty obvious.....I hope !
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Joe... I disagree. There were NO Rohm inscription daggers made by Jacobs, Tiger or WKC. If you have one of these 3FL is probably selling them to you. Either that or you are both smoking the same cornsilk. 
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Skyline... 
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Asside from the etch (which I don't like) and the maker mark (as previously discussed as BAD).
The central ridge is too sharp,
the crossgraining looks re-done,
the blade shape itself looks a little off,
and the grip does not even come close to meeting up with the crossguard.
How many red flags do you need.
PS. The anodizing is damn suspicious too.
PSS. Again, I am not an expert, this is my OPINION and although I may well be wrong on a few of the above points, I doubt I am wrong on all of them.
Either way, Joe I would strongly suggest that you send this dagger to a true expert and have an appraisal done. Whittmann, Johnson, etc. will be able to put your mind at ease, one way or the other.
Good luck to you.
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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quote: I'm not much of a computer wizard but could somone be capable of putting side by side, my full inscription with his ?
By your command.
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Skyline (same)
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Thank you Rev ! Now we can actually see the obvious differences between both inscriptions.
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Hey Guys, I dropped back by! Having fun? Hey Skyline, What did I EVER do to you to make you start throwing around lies and accusations you can't back up? I have been nothing but Polite to you! What up? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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quote: If you have one of these 3FL is probably selling them to you.
I think you owe me an Apology for that Crack! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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I am not even involved in this aside from posting some pictures for someone! You got something you want to say? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Mr. Moderator was around earlier but, Of course, he will let something like that slide from one of the "Clique" and be conveniently absent! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Apology? You're a riot....
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I wasn't laughing! And I just e-mailed Dave about it also. (Expletive Edited)
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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I ask you again. You got something you want to say to me? 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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SKYLINE, ALL I SAID WAS THERE ARE PLENTY OF MAKER MARKS WITH DIFFERENCES GENERALLY SPEAKING.NO NEED TO COME DOWN ON 3FL.HE SEEMS LIKE A NICE GUY.PAT,I NOW SEE WHAT YOUR SAYING,THE INSCRIPTION IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.IF IT IS ETCHED IN STONE ABOUT THERE BEING ONLY ONE TEMPLATE FOR THE ROHM INSCRIPTION THAN YOUR RIGHT.ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT ? JOE
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Fair Enough, I accept your apology. By the way, Did you ever figure out how to re-Blue those SS scabbards without the Selenium smell giving them away? Good luck with that one! Well, Ta Ta, Gotta go! I am finishing drop-forging some Himmler Blades! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Yes I did! Your suggestion of a number 5 electric blue "Mr. Brightie" felt pen works great! When people see these they think there was a luft division of the SS!
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Oh Pat, Just to set the record straight. You need to go over and call Denny Roach, Mike Carrol, and Sturmbrigade Liars while you are at it. They discuss the Seilheimer Dog logo on an Army! Mike even says he owned one! But Craig Gottlieb says he owns it now! Cadprof7 even posted a picture of his there. You Would think THESE Guys would know enough not to post pics of things that don't exist!: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...680075863#6680075863So you need to go straighten them out, so I don't feel picked on!
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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OOP's, I meant to say ROY Carrol, Not Mike Carrol, above! Mike Carrol was I guy I went to Law School with! Wasn't awake yet! Dang, I can't even work up a good insult correctly anymore! Getting old is Hell! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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OK, Listen, Seriously, Stand Down! I sincerely hope you know that 99% of the time I just do this for fun and games. And I would hope it is the same for the rest of you guys. But you crossed the line a bit last night, Lakeside, and you know it. I would never truly question your honesty and you shouldn’t impugn mine. You don’t know of ANYONE or any TIME I have EVER tried to seriously pass anything off on anyone that wasn’t right! I am not a dealer, but I do sell things occasionally and, when I do, I give a 100% lifetime warranty on originality and a 100% Money back guarantee! If you can honestly say different you need to produce the evidence. I am going to assume there was a sincere apology somewhere in what you said and give you the benefit of the doubt. I Truly have no ill feelings toward anyone on this forum and, hopefully, haven’t engendered any. I really would like to attend the MAX show and beat ….Uh…Meet You and break…Uh …Shake your hand! Now, shall we play on?  3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Louis, I am confused... I thought you said that you had nothing to do with this dagger other than posting the pics.  If that is indeed the case, then you must be a modern repro-robin hood! Because you are defending this fake (and it's new owner) with such unexplainable and apparently random zeal! "He doth protest too much" About 6 months ago I had posted my VERY convincing Voos T.D. Gravity knife, the maker mark is (I now know) bad. Yes, I was taken by a bad maker mark, it happens.  But where was repro-robin hood then? Why did you not post 42 posts saying that I must just have a rare maker, never before seen! 100% Legit! (Mine would have been a LOT easier to defend than this Seilheimer "Rohm"!) I need you on that one man! Where were you? But it is OK, no hard feelings, because in the end I learned the TRUTH, I was taken. And no matter what anyone says to the contrary, or how many times they post it, the TRUTH is that the mark is BAD. Louis, You have always been very cool to me, and I believe you when you say that you had nothing to do with this piece. I would be dissappointed to learn otherwise. Take care. Johnny
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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Leaving the politics and arguments aside, I want to share my recent experiences with the "new" batch of Rohm fakes. In a nutshell, there is someone somewhere who is etching fake Rohm inscriptions onto real SA daggers. However, it is very easy to tell, in my opinion, which daggers these are. The Rohm inscription is being done either with a laser, or with an etching solution that is weaker than was used during the period. The result is a much shallower etch than on the originals. If you obtain a known original, and one of these spurious pieces, and run your fingernail along the etch, you will immediately "feel" the difference. As for Rohm inscriptions with very minor variations, they DO exist, especially on cottage maker examples. On those cottage maker examples, one should judge the dagger as a whole, and not merely based upon the etch. Do keep in mind that on "cottage maker" Rohms, you can and should expect to receive a price break, if the dagger in question does have a "non-matching" etch (compared to an Eickhorn or a Pack). I would not condemn outright the Rohm at the top of this thread, but I do see serious problems with it that would keep me from buying it, and would probably keep me from spending time pursuing it. The chances are slim that its original, but I'm always open to changing my mind. Remember, the fakers are NOT faking Eickhorns and Packs.
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3FL Please leave my name out of this "discussion" whatever the reason for using it, pro or con. I had rather be left alone if you don't mind...........
" Always interested in Aluminum fitted, rare, and superbly conditioned Army daggers." DJ Roach
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Hi Johnny, Joe is a buddy of mine and it just bothers me sometimes when you guys on here come blustering around and talking in "absolutes" all the time. There are a lot of ways to express an opinion, but it just seems to me that some of the people on here live for the "Gotchas"! I don't really believe it is always intentional or conscious, and may even be expressions of sincere intent to try to help. I wasn't really so much defending this particular dagger as just trying to soften the blows a bit and introducing the possibility that some more research might have been in order. That's all! If you go back and look, a lot of what I said was directed against such "absolute" statements. I have been playing with this stuff for a day or two and have learned to Never say stuff like "So and So NEVER made That!" I am not so smart that I have that kind of information about these makers! It seems like, at least in my case, that as soon as I open my mouth and say something like that, it jumps up and bites me! So I try real hard not to do it. If there were statements like that being made about your Item, I MAY have been willing to jump in and say something, but I am NOT doing it so much anymore because I always seem to end up all by myself in these arguments which just seem like common sense to me. I have been burned before myself, (imagine that!) but I think it is not very kind for people to take such glee in pointing it out to you! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Hi D. J., Does that mean you agree that Seilheimer NEVER used the Dog Logo on anything except Bayonets and Swords? You just happened to be in thread I was refering to. 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Believe what you wish, BUT Leave me out of this stuff, Please........
" Always interested in Aluminum fitted, rare, and superbly conditioned Army daggers." DJ Roach
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"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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PAT, YOU HAVENT ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOUT THERE BEING ONLY ONE TEMPLATE.IF THERE IS ONLY ONE THEN I THINK I SHALL RETURN THIS DAGGER. JOE
<img src=http://www.germandaggers.com/images/Vet-US.jpg>
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Louie, I was about the first to post a response to this thread and I assure you, I took no pleasure in my less-than-positive view. Again, I have also been burned and I know it sucks. Your Rohm looks very nice! Almost new! But again I am no expert. Regardless, congrats on having such a piece in your collection. I don't have an SS Rohm yet but my day too will come (I hope! ) Craig- Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Joe- There were more than 1 tamplate as I understand. However they very only in the slightest degree. Yours is much further from "standard". I would again stress that you send this piece for an inspection and appraisal. Considering the potential value of such a rare piece, it would be a wise measure of security, especially should you ever consider selling it. Good luck to you. Johnny
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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Joe...Are you even reading these post, you have had one guy say he thinks its right....EVERYONE else that has posted DOESNT like it, if you like it KEEP it.People have told you what they see wrong with it.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Louie, I just arrived from a business meeting and read the thread and completely resent the fact that you've said that I should call Denny Roach or Mike Carrol as LIARS. What the hell is wrong with you ? I'm merely giving my opinion on a Rohm dagger, which I feel certain is fake and what do I get in return, a slap on the head. I'm just trying to help your friend from making a BIGGGGGGGG mistake. How many red flags to you need to understand that it is a complete fake ? That maker marked NEVER DID EXIST for on SA's or SS's blade, NOT for other edged weapons. I never said that this trademark did not exist but simply stated that they DID NOT EXIST on SA/SS blades...........that's all folks. There was 1 Master template as far as I know and they were all made based on this Master plate, and there shouldn't therefore have any differences in the inscription, other than minute, very minute differences. Read the following thread about templates. http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/477091573/...110092873#4110092873Joe, I'm sorry to say this but your's is wayyyyyy out of line and the differences are much too large to be an original Rohm blade. Trust me, there isn't the smallest possibility that this Rohm could be real and you don't need to be an expert to see it ( which I'm not by the way ).
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Louie,
Your SS Rohm seems original and I don't see any obvious red flags.
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Pat, If I mis-read your statment when you said the dog Logo ONLY appeared on Bayonets and swords, you have my deepest apology. But that is the way I read it. I also appreciate your wanting to help Joe. But it sometimes seems that we, yes, I include myself, are too callous in how we express our opinions to somebody who may have just been stung pretty bad $$$ and it might appear we are ganging up on them. I know That I sometimes walk away feeling more stupid than I should when I may have missed something. 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Oh, Thanks! Glad you like the SS! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Louie,
No hard feeling but sometimes I do get carried away and yes, I do like your SS Rohm and such a beauty is still missing from my collection.
Congrats !
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...there is someone somewhere who is etching fake Rohm inscriptions onto real SA daggers... Isn't that happening for over 50 years now? ...As for Rohm inscriptions with very minor variations, they DO exist...I would call that: extremely bad news for this forum! But... excellent news for all the owners of the "not so perfect" full Röhm blades! Some serious dagger value just got created! 3FLouie, That dagger looks great on those pics! Can you share some close-ups of the scabbard, the grip and the crossguards near the rune? We could learn something here! Pat, Don't worry you can get your perfect SS full Röhm as soon as you have the money ready. There are plenty out there you know, the SS-men were not that loyal after all so it seems... Which maker would you prefer anyway? Best greetings, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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The Selheimer 'dog' logo was also used on Army daggers as well as the 'PS' logo. I think - not 100% certain - that it was the later of the two marks and is hard to find.
Dave
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Yes, the dog logo is good on Heers, but rare. As a side note if anyone comes across one they are required by law to contact me immediately w/ fair pricing. That's just the law and I don't want to see anyone get in any trouble. 
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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HI ALL, JUST TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW THE DAGGER IS BEING SHIPPED BACK TOMORROW.I APPRECIATE EVERYBODYS OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT AND FEEL THAT I HAVE LEARNED ALOT.MY SPECIAL THANKS TO 3F LOUIE FOR STEPING UP TO PLATE FOR ME AND PAT AND OTHERS FOR THEIR EXPERTISE.AS FOR SKYLINE THATS A DIFFERENT STORY. JOE.
<img src=http://www.germandaggers.com/images/Vet-US.jpg>
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quote: Originally posted by 3-finger Louie: Oh Pat, Just to set the record straight. You need to go over and call Denny Roach, Mike Carrol, and Sturmbrigade Liars while you are at it. They discuss the Seilheimer Dog logo on an Army! Mike even says he owned one! But Craig Gottlieb says he owns it now! Cadprof7 even posted a picture of his there. You Would think THESE Guys would know enough not to post pics of things that don't exist!: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/886093573/...680075863#6680075863So you need to go straighten them out, so I don't feel picked on!
Feel free to pick on me all you like, i have of course seen the Dog Logo PS in circle and PS in triangle on a number of TR edged weapons - with the exception of SA daggers. On SA daggers i have ever only seen PS in the circle. I have seen the same configuration of Dog logo and Rohm inscription before on an SS dagger on Militariaweb (now militaria 321).
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Sturmbrigade, Just curious, This one has been put to bed and returned to the seller, I think. You say you did see a similar configuration on Militariaweb? Seilheimer with a Rohm inscription? Did you get any feeling as to whether it looked Right or not? Like I said, Just curious. Good to see you! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Hi Louie - yeah i realise its done and dusted so to speak, i thought i would just comment on what i had seen in the past. To me its looks very very similar right down to the sharp centre ridge and spacing. Also the seller was from Poland (not im not having a crack at polish ppl). Cross grain was similar to this one as well.
I have also seen a non - rohm version, but it was horrid and the maker mark etch was as wobbly as drunken sailor on a zimmer frame with 3 legs!
I collect Seilheimer stuff so i try to keep an eye out for the rarer stuff, but as you know PS has been heavily reproduced since the end of the war - etched bayo's in particular.
just my 2 cents.
GDC silver member #393
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You guys crack me up. Think about it.After 60 years and tens of thousands of SA and SS daggers showing up in collections, all of a sudden not only an SA but an SS dagger show up with an unknown makers mark on them, super rare enough but wait not if that isnt enough there FULL rohms not ground or partials but Full. Gee guys whats are the odds of that.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Thanks Sturmbrigade, And you are in OZ Right? I think some of the guys were speculating about where this one might have originated. That seller was from Poland. Thanks again, man.
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Rick The answer is: Somewhere between slim and none........
" Always interested in Aluminum fitted, rare, and superbly conditioned Army daggers." DJ Roach
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"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Rick and DJ; The fact that All the Blades we have been talking about are phonies was established about halfway down the second page of this thread! So You guys are dragging in a little late. Rick, It is not suprising that FAKES of anything are found now, and I would EXPECT there to be several of them out there! You guys need to read a bit more than the last two posts before you comment. Denny, I thought you didn't want to be involved in this thread!
3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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I made a comment in reply to a friend (and only him)...............
" Always interested in Aluminum fitted, rare, and superbly conditioned Army daggers." DJ Roach
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Wayne, I would like to comment or at least ask a couple of friendly question on the Eickhorn Rohm that you posted. 1. This SS Rohm, from the photo that you posted, appears to have a redone scabbard. Your thoughts ? 2. I've noticed that all of the early Rohm, Ground Rohm, Himmler and early large double oval Eickhorn SS dagger that I've owned or handled, have the long neck eagle in grip. I can't tell from your photo, is that what yours has ? 3. Most early Eickhorn's that I'm familar with have benchmarked and either "HE" or "AR" crossguards. These don't appear to be HE's, your thoughts or obsservations ? 4. It appears that your Rohm is a "Smooth Tail" Eickhorn etched squirrel. Is that right ? These are not meant to call your item into question, but more to clear up some trait characteristics and info that I usually associate with early Eickhorn SS dagger. Thanks for all. JR
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3FL... can you show closer, clearer pictures of the grip to crossguard fittings and also the rune. Cheers, Scott
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Sorry Guys, Not interested in playing "gotcha", Tired of the BS! Not trying to sell it, and I am comfortable with it's originality. So I will respectfully decline, you can go ahead and play on your own, With my blessings! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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I am sure you will have few others to play with shortly. And, I would ask you kindly not to re-post MY photos! Thank you!
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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quote: Originally posted by 3-finger Louie:
Sorry Guys, Not interested in playing "gotcha", Tired of the BS! Not trying to sell it, and I am comfortable with it's originality. So I will respectfully decline, you can go ahead and play on your own, With my blessings! 3FL
Only wanted to see closer pictures like this... 1.JPG (43.45 KB, 357 downloads)
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3fl,
I guess it's just me, but i think the fit of these fittings suck
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At first when i saw this dagger , my concerns was the fit as Bob Rodgers show .
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quote:
Can't see your pictures?
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Thank You, Vern! I would ask you guys, Politely, once again, Please do not repost My Photos. There was also one posted by Bob Rodgers and one by JR, Could you Please have those removed also? Thanks! 3FL
"Don't crush that Dwarf! Hand ME the Pliers."
Frank Zappa
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Vern,
I don't think you should touch anyone's posting when they were freely posted on a site.
I copied the original earlier today and during my lunch i edited it. so in no way is it his original picture.
I still stand by my posting that the fit of the items are not the best. I did save all of the pictures.
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3FL... why have you taken your pictures down? You post them, ask for comments and then remove them???
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Was wondering the same thing? Why post if you are just going to remove them?
Sepp
GD.C Gpld 0296
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Well well well.... Where have we seen that "Seilheimer Rohm" before....
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system!
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<a href="http://www.stirnpanzer.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.stirnpanzer.com/images/oscommerce.gif" alt="Stirnpanzer Militaria"></a><br /><b><h3>Consignment Items Wanted !!! - Only 5% Commission</h3></b>
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You chaps crack me up. I agree with Pat, SA is a piece of crap and in my opinion the posted SS is as well. Funny that the SA Rohm is now for sale in Corpus Christi Texas advertised as a vet bring back and sold as "all sales final" says a mouthful right there. cheers, Ryan
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This guy brought a lot of JUNK (can't remember a thing that was real) on GDC and attempted to legitimize and market it. He was allowed to do his thing and this is the end result.
Doesn't this type thing make Anyone allowing it to happen, an accessory to the fact?
Seems GDC and other sites do have a moral responsibility when this type thing rears it's ugly head......
Just my opinion.......and hopefully I am allowed to state it..........
Denny
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quote: These Items are not mine, so I know little or nothing about the history of most of them. I do know he got a chunk of his collection from an Ex SS Officer in Germany about 15-20 years ago. I will ask the executor of the estate to look in his papers and see if there is anything written about the history of any of the stuff and let you know and I will send copies of what I can find. Thanks Nick Nov 10 13:48PDT
Love it !!! 
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quote: Originally posted by D. J. Roach:
Just my opinion.......and hopefully I am allowed to state it..........
Denny
Denny, you are certainly not alone out there having these thoughts. Trully pathetic and I just can't believe that such a person would do such a thing. How lowly can you get ? Of course, he could always claim that there were originals................but non-textbook.
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Of course he could also claim they were textbook originals. But what textbook? Maybe it would be better to have a non textbook original then an original textbook fake or maybe a textbook original fake? All three kinds are out there-it just depends on the textbook.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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I guess I have not kept up with this thread, and I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but was it concluded here that 3FL is selling/has sold bad daggers? I notice his last post was way back in August. I always found his posts funny, but there was always something strange... There were often "rookie mistakes" and things that even a newer collector should know, that he missed. Brain fart, or old age excuse works once or twice, but after that.... I always kept my mouth shut, and thought some of the veteran guys might have said something if my "feeling" proved to hold any truth. I remember the "Dave Hohaus honor dagger" Clearly he knows how to etch inscriptions!
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<a href="http://www.stirnpanzer.com"><img border="0" src="http://www.stirnpanzer.com/images/oscommerce.gif" alt="Stirnpanzer Militaria"></a><br /><b><h3>Consignment Items Wanted !!! - Only 5% Commission</h3></b>
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quote: Originally posted by stirnpanzer: Wonder if 3FL will be ever be back on the forum
He was online around 1am this morning UK time or about 8pm east coast US time last night. So that would mean yes...
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OK - Guys. I've watched this thread enough and I've got to finally say something here.
I have had dealings with 3FL. As I know several other forum members have also. Maybe they will speak up, maybe not.
Not at any time did 3FL every do something that I could call dishonorable with me. He has ALWAYS MADE THINGS RIGHT WITH ME.
He has honored his word with me. And has come through with that word with ME.
Whithout going into questions of who's selling
authentic, parts, or repro pieces. Or how they are marketing them. All I can tell you that with ME, the man has been HONORABLE. And I've been around long enough to know what that means.
Are any of you aware that 3FL is terminally ill? Trying desperatly to survive a bit more.
I know you guys probably don't. If you did, I feel MOST, of you would stop this.
I HOPE that you ALL will now.
If some of you don't want to let it go, that is you right. Maybe in your heart, you like to give a few extra kicks to the guys who's already down. For those that feel they just have to "get their extra kicks in", I ask that you direct it at ME. OK? -wagner-
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Im glad to hear you speak up Wagner as its always good to see the other side of the story. Im also saddened to hear the 3FL is terminally unwell, i found his posts enjoyable. However if it is him selling this junk on Ioffer (and no one has proven this yet - just speculation based on location)then he should stop, at best the daggers are parts peices and at worst out and out fakes. If its not him then a lot of ppl on this thread owe apologies.
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Hello Sturm. I don't care what 3FL sells on I-offer or whoever else does either. I understand your point. Now, if you really want to do the right thing, as I am sure you do. Take a look at some of the deep pocket "major dealers" here, and take a look at some of the items they "authenicated" with their COA's. Yea, I know, we don't want to go there, do we? In my opinion, that is where you should look. That's the real problem. Many examples out there. Just saw one several days ago.
So, I appreciate your concern for 3FL. Because he is a GOOD person, who needs moral support during this trying time. If I had the extra money I would buy ALL his daggers. I KNOW I can buy ONE. Maybe You can buy ONE? And just maybe
a couple of other guys can buy ONE?
I know he would just rather hear a kind word now. He doesn't want any sympathy or bad feeling toward anyone. In my opinion. -wagner-
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I agree there are dealers out there that authenticate and sell questionable items. Plain and simple. But does that make it okay for others to do so? IMO no. I don’t think any fake being sold by anyone benefits this hobby at all. I don’t know about other collectors but I have to work hard and save up to buy my stuff (as im sure many of us do). Last thing I want to happen is see my hard earned $$ wasted on trash. As for buying one of the daggers on ioffer - thanks but no thanks 2 many question marks on these items.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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First of all, I want to say that I sincerely feel sorry for 3FL, or anyone else for that matter, who is terminally ill. A good friend of mine ( and a GDC member ) went through some rough times couple of months ago and I'm really happy that he is now feeling much better. His hair has even grown back. Kidding aside, everyone came to the conclusion that this SS full Rohm dagger was a complete fake. You don't need to be an expert to know that. Just use your logic ! Do you really think that an authentic SS full Rohm would actually sell for only 3,600 $ USD ? C'mon, let's be serious, the seller knew exactly that the dagger was fake or else, he would've sold it to any big dealer name for a lot more money.... if original.That's a dagger worth at least 15,000 $ USD at full retail. I don't know who actually sold this dagger and I surely hope that it isn't 3FL. If it isn't him, then I'm terribly sorry for having thought that he was the seller of this dagger. I also would've like 3FL to go public and respond to this thread. We know that he came on GDC and saw this specific thread, as we saw his name listed on the ONLINE section of the forum. Why is he not making any public response ? I don't know and I cannot answer this question for him. However, if he is the one that sold this dagger on the web, then he will have to live with his decision as he very well knew that this dagger was fake. There is no HONOR when you try to willingly sell a fake dagger. It's not because you have a serious illness that it gives you the right to cheat on people. On the contrary, you should instead be mercifull and humanly sincere with others. We all know that many big dealer names are also selling questionable daggers on the web. Does it make the crime more tolerable and justifiable for anyone to do the same thing ? Not in my book ! Even if all dealers were crooks and thiefs, guess what, I still wouldn't be part of their gang and still wouldn't willingly sell any fake items. This thread is really sad and would really like to know if the seller of this dagger is actually 3FL or not..............as I'm certain that someone knows the answer. God Bless !
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,361
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,361 |
wagner quote: If some of you don't want to let it go, that is you right. Maybe in your heart, you like to give a few extra kicks to the guys who's already down. For those that feel they just have to "get their extra kicks in", I ask that you direct it at ME. OK?
This is not remotely about anyone's health issues that you bring to light..... If that's the case, I feel truly sorry that someone has a bad run of luck and is ill, but this is about fakes being presented and sold as originals. Character can't be diminished by disease or illness. I personally resent your accusations that anyone is "kicking someone while they're down". Absolutely nothing to do with anything you state above.... If you are suggesting that someone buy a repo, I wonder about your motives. Sorry, but I read between the lines and don't like what I read. Denny
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478 |
Whatever happened to the "Dave Hohaus Honor Dagger"?? But seriously, I am sorry to hear 3FL is sick, but I have to agree fully with both Pat and D.J. in this case. Having first hand experience with an originally "questionable" dagger myself, it sickens me to see anyone knowingly making and/or selling them.  I'll be watching to see what is concluded here, and I hope it was not 3FL selling bad daggers. I hope he is just a crazy old guy having a little fun
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