UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum SA Dagger with Variant Motto Letters

I was looking at my SA Dagger with Variant Motto Letters and I noticed that the "R" in "EICKHORN" is actually an "E" that appears to have been carved in by a process other than acid etching after the maker mark was acid etched into the blade causing the name to be spelled "EICKHOEN" I find this puzzling as the rest of the dagger is okay, crossguards match, bottom guard is benchmarked "8", blade fits like a glove...does anybody have any explaination for this?

Thanks!

John

motto...

motto detail...

detail...

Hard to get good pictures of the blade....

Wow, this is one for Dave to give an opinion on.

There are a few things that I do not like:
1) The "Eickhoen" mark. As far as I know there are NO variation in the spelling of "Eickhorn".
2) There was obviously a blade buffer on this dagger. Not normally seen on SA daggers.....
3) This is an early motto "A" SA. Is there a Gua mark on the crossguards????
HELP Dave (and others!!!)
I am VERY interested in MORE input.
Best to you,
Johnny

Is that a variant on the spelling of Solingen too...
I see no "i" or is it just the pic?

Johnny I do not follow. Why do you say there was a buffer pad on this?

As for the trademark, I think it's possible that the "R" didn't take the etching process properly and was partially absent. When it was noticed, someone (post war) hand scratched the letter "E" in its place because they didn't know it should be an "R" instead of an "E". Both letters contain common elements. Paul... I think the "I" in SOLINGEN is there in the shadows. Notice this Undine dagger where the "N" in SOLINGEN has not completely taken the acid etch. I see no evidence of a buffer pad, nor do I see a gau mark.

I saw a J.P. Sauer & Sohn advertised a few days back that was missing the 1 in the date 1751 so it read GEGR, 751. Can't remember now which site it was on.

The blade on the Eickhorn has more than the usual crossgraining like it was on some buffer wheel? It looks strange with those lines. I like the motto etch though and I think is may just be very early and amoung the first ones done..then I come back to that weird crossgrain?
I sure would like more opinions as well. Were all the early Eickhorns benchmarked on all the parts?

Mark

Also doesnt the variant etch usually come with the early party style eagle in the handle, not the run of the mill one?

Johnny,

I would suggest the mark on the underside of the crossguard is from the scabbard throat where it has been sat for many years and not a buffer pad.
Interesting piece here and will probably be difficult to come up with real reason as to its modification.

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

hello dear friend i have in my collection an sure original NAPOLA without the 2 point on the U of burgsmuller ?? i have this dolch with a french veteran !! i think that an error is possible
best regards
patrick

quote:

Originally posted by William W.:
I saw a J.P. Sauer & Sohn advertised a few days back that was missing the 1 in the date 1751 so it read GEGR, 751. Can't remember now which site it was on.

It was on Eban. I saved the image.

Thanks Rev, that was it. Got my Suhl makers mixed up.

Sorry guys, "simply daggers" is correct, I was thinking that the mark on the bottom of the crossguard could have been from a blade buffer. When I looked at the pics again this morning I realized I was wrong in that initial observation. That's what happens when I take cold medicine and then try to "contribute" to the forum.... that stuff makes me loopy , and apparently it makes me see "obvious" evidence of blade buffers all over the place!

So I guess the only questioning points are the grip eagle (should it be the early version?), and the makers mark. I know that there are examples of incomplete makers marks, but this is an "E" instead of an "R". Even if the etch was incomplete, that does not explain the lower bar on the "E".

Paul- I think there is an "I" in solingen on this piece, it looks like it is just hidden by the way the light/shadow hits it in the pic.

I would really like to see that dagger blade in person before commenting. The crossgrain looks different, but photos play tricks.

Dave

PS - Is it for sale ?

The later eagle is OK. I posted a Pack early "A" SA with the same eagle a few posts back under "Christmas SA".

Mark

Hi Guys:

Thanks to everybody that commented.

I am going to take some more pictures under daylight conditions today, including with the dagger taken apart and I will post them in a bit.

John

quote:

PS - Is it for sale ?

That's usually a good sign.

Yes it is. Those first SA daggers are very interesting and the more that surface, the better we can understand them.

I am certainly interested in finding out more about this one

Dave

Interesting dagger, John.

I would like to see more pictures of the makersmark-side of the blade. Does it appears like a Röhm dedication has been ground off (this could explain the strange crossgrain on both sides)? What about the scabbard, if there is one, is it annodised?

I do see some differences in the motto when I compare with the Eickhorn "christmas" SA dagger that I have.

Best greetings,

Herman

I have serious doubts about the originality of this blade. The trademark and motto have detail differences from other early Eickhorns that I have seen. Just my opinion.

An easy explaination.The Eickhorn bladesmith did not know how to spell the company name in the early days.

More pictures:

crossguard:

benchmark "8":

(that is just dirt on the bottom of the crossguard..not pitting/etc)...tang:

blade:

detail:

blade again:

detail.....

tang appears to have a number stamped on it...I just noticed this after posting the picture....blade:

reverse detail angle:

maker mark....the "E" was appears to have been added afterwards as it is thinner than the rest of the lettering..why this was done I do not know...

The internal markings apper to match...they look to be "HE"

The scabbard was an anodized brown that somebody sloppily painted black...the black has spidering to the paint:

John: Thanks for the clearer photos. I will now amend my previous statement regarding originality. The motto letters look OK but the TM is rather crude. I've seen the smooth tail squirrel but there could be 2 versions. I think someone attempted regraining.

Hi Dons:

Thank you for the information. Do you know if the TM varies from what is accepted as correct for this large style Eickhorn trademark?

Thanks,

John

John: When it comes to "Christmas" Eickhorn's their are not many around to compare. I know there is a smooth tail squirrel with C.E. in a double oval and a jagged tail squirrel with C.E. in a single oval. Yours may be a legitmate third version. Lets hope someone can post a version like yours.

Just went back to an old thread from Oct.16, 2003 and found a jagged tail C.E. double oval photo like John's. That confirms a third TM version of "Christmas" Eickhorns.

HI Dons:

Thank you for that information and for looking that up.

John

Dons that old thread is in the danger area for being corrupted and lost with such important info on this trademark it should be brought back to the top

AJ, that last comment ,,I totaly agree. This site is loosing very valuable info since last program change or what ever the heck you call it. I just found out very hard to find discussion on a early type WKC 2nd luft I bought . I am very glad I bought it too, but was in question until I found this old info. Regards, Tiep