UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum ATTENTION NUMBERED SA OWNERS: THE PAPER

Here is the link, i will ask the moderators to post this on a more appropriate GDC URL for all to have access to...but i didnt want to wait

http://www.geocities.com/gustavomartina/SA.html (brief intro on the background by me, and URL and the end, also link to the paper on the left panel)

I am certain everyone (owners of numbered SAs or not), will enjoy this as much as I. We really needed this scholarly, rigorous input based on a complete study of the primary sources.

Dr. Martin Schuster, a German historian whose specific expertise is the SA in Berlin-Brandenburg, is the author. You may have already seen his doctoral dissertation which he completed in 2004 at the Technical University of Berlin.

This 20 pp. paper is based on his study of the following sources among others:

- Files BA NS 23 etc at Bundesarchiv
- Extant OSAF (SA High Command) directives relevant to the dolche
- Die Berliner SA
- Nordmark SA
- Various SA Gruppenfurer directives and letters
- Verordnungsblatt der Obersten SA Fuhrung etc etc

You will find here fresh information on the absolute logistical and financial nightmare that faced OSAF as a result of the massive orders for several millions Ehrendolche, and regular dienstdolche, data based on original sources regarding instructions for wear, maintenance, approved accesories, "gift daggers" (Geschenk dolche) and the type of blade adorment that was allowed. Evolution from OSAF management of the overall process to RZM, etc

Most importantly...and i wont spoil the fun for you, pp. 14-17 provides what it appears is the answer we have been waiting for regarding the 5 digit numbers.

This paper is meant to be read form start to finish with footnotes. Its well worth it

Enjoy!

Congratulations to you Gustavo! A very interesting piece of work that fills some gaps in the history behind these daggers. Since you commissioned this work to be done, is it yours to copyright? I would suggest that Wittmann give this a read before publishing his own work to make sure that any inconsistancies are resolved first. Thumbs up!

well, i paid for his time and work, but the copyright belongs to him. This paper, you will agree, is a must reference... we will see what W. does....

Very interesting-We NEED more German research-but little has been forthcoming-at least in English. What I found most interesting --if I read it correctly--was that there were 200,000 Rohm daggers. If that is correct then there were MANY more than we had thought.Also makes one wonder if the number of SS Rohms was quite a bit more than 9,900.

Fortunately, most of his key statements are footnoted to primary sources. If any doubts come up we can ask him.

as geotities is free and very basic hosting service, we are now exceeding the data tranfer limit... can someone upload the paper to another site and post the url here?

This artical is great reading, I read it all in one sitting. I think that I will read it over and over its great referance. Thanks, Adam

So good Gustavo!!!

One thing that I found very interesting can be found on page 13 under the description of "Type A" daggers. He states that in some cases the scabbard was painted brown. That may be the answer for an SA of mine that appears to have an original painted scabbard.

I think there is certain makers that it is accepted to have brown painted scabbards already the maker(s) slips my mine now though I am sure some big time SA collectors might know that answer..

I've uploaded both papers on my website so no worries about data traffic:

http://www.wwiirelics.com/gustavo/MartinSchusterSADagger.pdf

http://www.wwiirelics.com/gustavo/schuster_martin.pdf

Kris.

Gustavo
A great initiative which has resulted in some very interesting and varied information for everyone to enjoy - a big thankyou!
Regards
Russell

one of my favortite insights:

"[OSAF 'asked' the local groups to get on with payments for the daggers] Usually OSAF did not "ask" subordinate levels to do something...The usunual attitude OSAF took in this order, resembling something not totally unlike the oft-derided "burgeois" politeness, reflects the dire situation OSAF found itself in." (footnote 44). Pleeeeeassseee guys! Pay uuppp :-))

Gustavo, thanks very much for your sharing that with us all...it answers a lot of previously unresolved issues to SA collectors.

I have read until my eyes hurt! Great stuff...

Mark

I compliment you Gustavo.
Your unselfish sharing of this information with the collecting community only strengthens the hobby.
Several insights. I particularly found it interesting that in today's terms an SA dagger cost about $200US based on the wage of the day approx .8RM per hr. Also some good insight as to why SA vertical hangers are so scarce and the 3pc so common. I could go on and on. Not done yet but really enjoying the piece. I'm sure TW would be very interested for his new reference.

Excellent Resource. Thanks Gustavo

nice one gustavo very kind of you to share it with us all

Any one know when T.W.'s book is coming out? My guess is he will rely heavily on his editor (Dave Hohaus?) as far as cross-referencing the latest available material...

Thank you Gustavo! SUPER excellent resource!

Hola Gustavo!

Amazing work!!

Wittman told the book is at least one year away, so maybe two year away is closer to the truth.

Sam,

Gustavo,
I´m proud to be one of the first readers of the study in your home. It´s a really good job done without interest and the solution (documented) to one mistery in our hobby. Thank you very much for your initiative and for share this incredible information to all us!!!!!!!!
What will be your next secret project??????? ;-)

Check out this Nordmark SA Ausweis I have just ordered from Bill Shea (his pic). This illustrates and lends further support to Martin's thesis... 23/86 is the sturm and Standarte, belonging to Brigade 16 based in Schleswig, Nordmark Gruppe, and the 5 digit Ausweis number.... anyone got this stamped on a dagger???

Thank you Gustavo, you have brought a great revitalization to the hobby - I'm a Gallego by the way - I thought I was the only guy from Spain in the hobby -

Gracias Miguel

Fantasic reference and the second paragraph of his paper resolves some questions I had about this...

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/160093.../r/61110996#61110996

At last some good SA research. Keep it up, please... I can't survive on subjectivism.

Well worth a quick dip back into the GD waters.

Whoa Dude.......... Neal Jackson ! The guy who taught me how to post a picture on GDC so many years ago ! Welcome back !

Hi Neal:
let me also add a Welcome Back!
Jim

Thanks, guys. Nice to see you hereabout, and in good health, I hope.

I trust you've been using those skills to feed this hungry mob plenty of eye-candy, JR?

Well, from my couple of posts you can see how this little glimpse at GD.Com has fed positively into my Röhm research. I always loved this resource for the expertise and the nicer members.

I'm back in Blighty for the summer, so I may inadvertently annoy a few bristlingly conservative GD members. Should I apologise now?

Nice to see you back again Neal.

Still Röhming ??

Ulf.



"Wo die Norweger stehen kommen die Russen nie durch"
SS-Obergruppenführer Friedrich Jäckeln

Picking up the path, Ulf. Looks like there's been some crazy paving put down...or maybe they're just cracks.

Regards,