UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum Back to the basics

Written by Russ & posted by Lance:
I don't really know what has been going on in other threads as I usually review only the for sale wanted HJ and blade forums. We are all only visitors here at the pleasure of the owners. I want to thank the posters in the HJ forum for staying with the basics. To the poster who poses the most original and thought provoking HJ question in the next two weeks, as solely determined by me, a nice HJ artifact will be coming your way. Original, not mint and probably not mint 2 hours after received by the boy. GO!

Here is mine:

What are the physical indicators in the production sequence from the first HJ production to the end ? By this I mean I mean how did the grips, screws, blades, mottos change over time ?

An example from SS dagger evolution:

1.Point wing SA prototype. This was .....
2. Early maker-marked. Materials were ...
3. Early transitional with nickel silver ...
4. Mixed parts tansitional with .....
5. Late production pieces with ...
6. Production shortcuts.

We so "no ricasso" "early grip" and various other descriptors, but to actually know the development sequence and what part fit with what would greatly help collectors.

Dave

Here is a less complex question--But a very important one. Should the background outline color of the grip emblem on originals be silver or a dull gold color?

How interesting is this?

It seems that the latest POPE, Benedict XV1 was almost forced to join the HJ against his will. Historical research by a Volker Laube, a German historian show that a young Joseph Ratzinger resisted pressure to enrol.
The investigation was commisioned by the Vatican and was leaked to the press.

His parents had to pay for his education after the Nazis withdrew state tuition for any boy not in the HJ.

Wonder what his items would have been worth if 1. He had joined.
2. He had kept them.
3. He still became Pope.

What year did the 1st HJ knife make an appearance?.

IF you had been around (and in the right-wrong? place) at the time-would you have joined????.........

Hard to say if I would have joined, it would have depended where I was born. If I had been German I think I would have very little choice. In England noooooo I would have been a boy Scout, dib dob.

How about this. What was the main use the Hitler Youth had for their knives. In other words , what did they use their daggers for mainly? If at all. Or were they a status symbol?

www.simplydaggers.co.uk

Has the perfect HJ reproduction been made yet? Condsidering the simplicity of the knife it should be the easiest to copy. Charlie

Getting back to the Pope's HJ membership, it was not an elective thing. The Reich's Youth Laws of 1936 and reinforced in 1938, made it absolute that all German youth HAD to be members of the DJ and HJ, no elective membership. Therefore, the Pope was compelled to join or his parents would be prosecuted.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Ron You are correct. The information I originally posted came from a newspaper artical. They have obviously got it wrong and maybe the leak was not a leak. Maybe it was intended to mislead.

I found this of interest.
Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger joined the Hitler Youth as membership was legally required after December 1936.[2] According to one of Ratzinger's biographers, the National Catholic Reporter correspondent John Allen, he was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, because he believed it was in conflict with their faith. In 1941 one of Ratzinger's cousins with Down syndrome was killed by the Nazi regime. In 1943, when he was 16, Ratzinger was drafted with many of his classmates into the Luftwaffenhelfer (Air Force Auxiliary) programme. After his class was released from the Corps in September 1944, Ratzinger was put to work setting up anti-tank defences in the Hungarian border area of Austria in preparation for the expected Red Army offensive. He was eventually drafted into the German army at Munich to receive basic infantry training in the nearby town of Traunstein. His unit served at various posts around the city and was never sent to the front. Ratzinger was briefly interned in an Allied prisoner-of-war camp near Ulm and was repatriated on June 19, 1945. The family was reunited when his brother, Georg, returned after being repatriated from a prisoner-of-war camp in Italy.

Now thats from a good internet source.

one question i`d like to ask. many of the hj went on to serve in the wehrmacht and of course the ss. therefore many of the knives would have been `carried over` as unauthorised fighting knives. are there any examples or accounts from vets, of ever coming across a foe armed with one of these ?, and conversely, many of these knives were taken from prisoners as souveniers, mainly by us troops, (as british army regulations forbade the keeping of `liberated` items. which is why there are more goodies to be found stateside than over here.)so, did any u.s. vet ever use a knife in anger on a german??!. a case of the dog turning on it`s original owner!. i`d love to know.

Welcome blueboyukb, I believe this is the first time you have posted in the HJ forum. I have had the good fortune over the years to get to know the local veterans here in my rural town in western North Carolina. I have always been skeptical of any vet who talks of disarming a German in/immediately after battle who was carrying a dress dagger. That said, I have about 12 Hjs obtained directly from the veterans who state and I believe they took them from captured Germans in battle. Most of these HJs have had the quillion filed down or broken off andn ALL ARE SHARPENED. These are not the shelf queen knives so many today want but a knife carried by a fighting soldier to the front. Give me an average conditioned knife with a real story every time over the shelf queens. These knives of mine come directly from vets of the 29th, 101, 82 and 3rd-note all were obtained according to my records from the vets post June 44. These knives were made to be used and not symbolic like the dress daggers. Remember also the order that dress daggers were not to be worn as the war worsened and pistols were.
Most of my veteran acquired daggers of the dress type came from weapons depos were they were surrendered and piled up and from searches of private homes and businesses. I do have three dress daggers that were surrendered to vets by the officer in formal surrender ceremonies but I believe that to be the exception to the rule.

hi russ,yes i believe you`re correct, with this being my second post here!. but i`m a regular visitor , i only have the one hj knife, and like all my edged weapons it intrigues me to think who wore it and what it may have `seen`.i`ve not seen any of the vet acquired hj `fighting knives`. but i`m sure they`re out there.as for my question, it still stands, does anyone know of one being `used in anger`?.cheers, steve.

My understanding is that the HJ knives were presented after the youth member had attained a certain level of accomplishment or certain criteria had been met.

What did the member have to achieve before he was entitled to receive and wear the knife?

How long was the process of achieving the criteria?

What format did the presentation ceremony take and who would have made the presentations, how often and where?

Regards
Russell

I hope this pic comes out ok. It is from a DVD and shows the presentation of the HJ knife and what looks to be a cross-strap as well.

I haven't seen any other pics of presentations, so if anyone has some, could you please show?

Regards
Russell

hello all, as it`s been a month since the last post, i just wondered who won?.and what was the prize?.