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After reading this thread from start to finish...it would seem to me that you did buy that cup and the seller confirmed it's sale. There is no law forbidding Allach coming into Germany. Mark 
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what a mess, and what a price. HELL. if you paid by credit card it will be insured for your money back, if you sent paypal cash i recommend a visit,,,,, if you get my drift. there is to much of this bad sh2t about these days. by the way, hope you dont take offence at my replies seiler, i wish no ill feeling. 
PHIL BROWN
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Hi Phil.No problemo as my good friend "Bart" says.But I dont like this kind of thing. Did somebody up the "ante"? Seiler (Yank in UK) 
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That's the word....I would not be happy if that happened to me, especially since the seller confirmed the sale. I don't know if he actually received payment but if he did and then refused it that's just bad. 
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Dear Lloyd,
I hope you can find it in your heart to treat this lady fair and complete the deal that you made with her, yes?
We helped you out when you asked for our opinions and asked for nothing in return, so how about doing a good turn here even if you might have been offered a better deal after-the-fact? Send it to her relatives if you don't want to send it to Germany.
Welching on this would bring much bad karma and lousy juju ...
Sincerely,
Bill Warda
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quote: Originally posted by Alexandra Beilengries:
Here it goes on:
"If I should in fact receive funds from you they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law.
Thank You for your understanding,
Lloyd deForest"
Judge yourself it this is on the one hand true at all what he wrote about German law and on the other hand if this is a man who should stay as a member in this forum.
Remember: this could have happened to everybody here...
Clarification to all interested:My first correspondence regarding this Allach piece was with "Alexandra Beilengries" of this forum. I received the following emil regarding the piece as follows: "Hello Lloyd, I recently saw your Allach cup on the German-Daggers-website and I would like to buy it. My offer for the piece is $3500. Please let me know if that is o.k. for you. Thanks in advance for your answer regarding this. Alexandra from Germany" At this point, I received the following email: "Hello Lloyd, thanks for your pictures! I really like the piece and you can be sure: it will be in good hands here in good old Germany. Whenever you want to visit this lovely coutry please let me know: you are always welcome! Please send me your bank account so that I can wire the $3500 into your account. My address is: Alexandra Beine - Wiedaustrasse 70 c - 48163 Münster-Amelsbüren Please inform me when the money has arrived and pack the piece very carefully and send it with UPS, if possible. Thanks in advance, Alexandra from Germany" Before finalizing any agreement, I emailed this: "Hi Alexandra, Will be waiting for it and will discuss shipping on receipt. Have a great weekend and sure hope that we don't get any more snow here. Have 3 foot drifts now but still able to get out. Regards, Lloyd" Wanting to inform her of necessary postage, I queried several people regarding the proper procedure to send this piece. I was told that the German government would not allow Allach into Germany. When I learned of this, I immediatly sent the following email: "ALEXANDRA, Please do NOT forward money to me. Something has arisen and cup not available at this time. Again, DO NOT FORWARD MONEY. Thank You, Lloyd deForest" I subsequently sent the following to clarify the above: "Hi again, It is my understanding that the German authorities do not want or permit Allach pieces to be shipped into Germany and I will not even attempt to circumvent German policy by sending this piece to you. If I should in fact receive funds from you, they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law. Thank You for your understanding, Lloyd deForest" I then received several emails to include: "Hello Lloyd! I have send the money already and I want to make one thing for sure: I am not willing to let this cup go since we officially already made a contract which is visable totally clear! We both agreed to a deal and contract and both parties have to fulfill their parts. I am not stupid and if something happened to the Allach cup I want to get the broken pieces! It is not my problem if someone like Dennis Porell or Kris Lindblom or any other guy offered you more for it - we made the deal and we will finish it. Otherwise I may have to take legal action - and I am not afraid of doing it. Best regards!" Today I receved this email: "Hello Mr. Forest, what you write concerning german law and Allach or Nazi pieces is NOT correct and I guess you know that. It is just another attempt to try not to fulfil our contract. You should know this: I inform Mr. Dave Hohaus and Mr. Craig Gottlieb about your illegal behaviour concerning our contract about the Allach cup. This is visable to every collector and the whole public on the GDC forum. As well: I am a citizen of the USA (!) and I come from West Warwick in Road Island - so no problem for me at all to take legal action! I started it already yesterday and if you are still not willing to send me the Allach cup after you receive the $3500 from me I promise you you will get in trouble. The world is a village! So better fulfill your duties! Best regards, Renée Alexandra Carolyn" I HAVE NOT RECEIVED AND I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MONEY FROM THIS PERSON OR PERSONS (note the name change). AT THIS POINT AFTER INNUENDO AND INSULT, I AM KEEPING THE CUP! (There is NO state named "ROAD Island". It would seem that a citizen of the US would know the proper spelling of their state!)
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Lloyd, She's very adamant and fair's fair. Give her a break let her have the nice piece of porcelain for her collection. You'll be a better man for it!   Bill ps just got this in the mail - if I'm way out of line and been covering for a fraud or scam, then **** on you. I wouldn't knowingly do that. "The buyer of that cup off GDC is none other than Thorsteing Beine. He has welched on 4-5 purchases and has not delivered items that were paid for and was banned from GDC for just that. He has not followed through on his end enough that as soon as the Allach community found out who was buying the piece they all warned the seller. I assume he got skiddish. Either way what comes around go's around. And he stole 75 dollars from another member and now he is paying the piper." Post that!!
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quote: Originally posted by lloyd: quote: Originally posted by Alexandra Beilengries:
Here it goes on:
"If I should in fact receive funds from you they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law.
Thank You for your understanding,
Lloyd deForest"
Judge yourself it this is on the one hand true at all what he wrote about German law and on the other hand if this is a man who should stay as a member in this forum.
Remember: this could have happened to everybody here...
Clarification to all interested:My first correspondence regarding this Allach piece was with "Alexandra Beilengries" of this forum. I received the following emil regarding the piece as follows: "Hello Lloyd, I recently saw your Allach cup on the German-Daggers-website and I would like to buy it. My offer for the piece is $3500. Please let me know if that is o.k. for you. Thanks in advance for your answer regarding this. Alexandra from Germany" At this point, I received the following email: "Hello Lloyd, thanks for your pictures! I really like the piece and you can be sure: it will be in good hands here in good old Germany. Whenever you want to visit this lovely coutry please let me know: you are always welcome! Please send me your bank account so that I can wire the $3500 into your account. My address is: Alexandra Beine - Wiedaustrasse 70 c - 48163 Münster-Amelsbüren Please inform me when the money has arrived and pack the piece very carefully and send it with UPS, if possible. Thanks in advance, Alexandra from Germany" Before finalizing any agreement, I emailed this: "Hi Alexandra, Will be waiting for it and will discuss shipping on receipt. Have a great weekend and sure hope that we don't get any more snow here. Have 3 foot drifts now but still able to get out. Regards, Lloyd" Wanting to inform her of necessary postage, I queried several people regarding the proper procedure to send this piece. I was told that the German government would not allow Allach into Germany. When I learned of this, I immediatly sent the following email: "ALEXANDRA, Please do NOT forward money to me. Something has arisen and cup not available at this time. Again, DO NOT FORWARD MONEY. Thank You, Lloyd deForest" I subsequently sent the following to clarify the above: "Hi again, It is my understanding that the German authorities do not want or permit Allach pieces to be shipped into Germany and I will not even attempt to circumvent German policy by sending this piece to you. If I should in fact receive funds from you, they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law. Thank You for your understanding, Lloyd deForest" I then received several emails to include: "Hello Lloyd! I have send the money already and I want to make one thing for sure: I am not willing to let this cup go since we officially already made a contract which is visable totally clear! We both agreed to a deal and contract and both parties have to fulfill their parts. I am not stupid and if something happened to the Allach cup I want to get the broken pieces! It is not my problem if someone like Dennis Porell or Kris Lindblom or any other guy offered you more for it - we made the deal and we will finish it. Otherwise I may have to take legal action - and I am not afraid of doing it. Best regards!" Today I receved this email: "Hello Mr. Forest, what you write concerning german law and Allach or Nazi pieces is NOT correct and I guess you know that. It is just another attempt to try not to fulfil our contract. You should know this: I inform Mr. Dave Hohaus and Mr. Craig Gottlieb about your illegal behaviour concerning our contract about the Allach cup. This is visable to every collector and the whole public on the GDC forum. As well: I am a citizen of the USA (!) and I come from West Warwick in Road Island - so no problem for me at all to take legal action! I started it already yesterday and if you are still not willing to send me the Allach cup after you receive the $3500 from me I promise you you will get in trouble. The world is a village! So better fulfill your duties! Best regards, Renée Alexandra Carolyn" I HAVE NOT RECEIVED AND I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MONEY FROM THIS PERSON OR PERSONS (note the name change). AT THIS POINT AFTER INNUENDO AND INSULT, I AM KEEPING THE CUP! (There is NO state named "ROAD Island". It would seem that a citizen of the US would know the proper spelling of their state!)
For even further clarification I had it on good authority that Allach could not be sent into Germany because of the SS stamp on the bottom and I did not wish to incur any problem in that regard. Furthermore, I received emails from several persons that raised doubts as to the identification of the prospective buyer. You will note that several different names have been used by the prospective "buyer". The piece remains in my possession and has not been sold and remains in my safe as it has for several years now! I do want to thank the GDC members for their assistance in this regard. Lloyd
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Wow. I think the phrase is "A Storm in a Wedding (tea)Cup After the Storm report: - Lloyd showed his cup here and predictably got an offer or two. I saw it at the beginning and did not think it was a sales ad, so I left it. - He got an offer he could not refuse, but was informed by good friends that sending something with an SS symbol on the bottom to Germany was maybe not unlawful, but not smart. Based on this plus other other info (see below), he pulled out. - He was also informed that the real buyer was Thorsten Beine, who is banned from GDC for taking 75 Euros from a fellow member and failing to deliver what was promised. Based on the above, I support Lloyd's decision. In addition, the buyer has so far used three different names: Renee Alexandra Carolyn, Alexandra Beilengries, and - the address to where the item was to be sent - Alexandra Beine. Also, she comes from "Road Island" Anybody got more fact ? Dave
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You really CAN'T make this stuff up!
In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944
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Whew,what a circus! "Road" Island doesnt bother me living close by However I know of a guy who had a long running spat with Thorsten on unpaid goods he never rcvd. Seiler (Yank in UK)
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I guess that what goes around...comes around. Seems like that to me. IF it is a Thorsten deal then it's just that. Mark 
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I think I must agree with Lloyd. I do not trust German authorities when it concerns 3rd reich items, which this Allachcup is after all.
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Baloney.baloney.Nothing to do with the Authorities.Thats a smokescreen IMO Seiler (Yank in UK)
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Hello!
Unfortenately today I am in lack of time (yes, there IS a world apart from GDC...)
but after reading these "interesting" opinions about German law and some other really interesting official alligations (e.g. who are the "good friends" (NAMES!) of Mr. Hohaus who himself still did not reply yet to my E-mail) concerning this matter as a whole I will take some time tomorrow evening to give my two cents of facts and non-facts in here.
And yes - I am still a citizen of USA coming from RHODE Island (did this little mistake in my excitement)...
And yes - who else takes part in this website under another name or is everybody here keen on getting robbed like it happens more and more often in this and other collector scenes??
Best regards!
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Dear Mr. Hohaus,
since I am still waiting for a reply at all from You concerning this matter I ask you now here in this thread for sending me the contact details of Mr. Lloyd deForest, member of this forum.
If he is willing to fulfill his contractual obligation it is fine.
But if not I will employ a lawyer here in the USA to take legal action.
I am not keen on doing that but obviously there seems to be no other way.
Thanks in advance and best regards!
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In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944
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..and when the "cup" holder gets robbed, {as "someone" suggested earlier as reasoning for deception} Who will they look to as suspects? I don't think Dave is or should divulge any info about member addresses. I have always heard people say "Buyer Beware" this may be one of those instances. Unless someone has taken your money, I believe the item is still the possession of the seller/owner. "There is many a slip be-twix a cup and a lip!"
In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944
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Well,
Ms Renee Alexandra Carolyn or Alexandra Beilengries, or Alexandra Beine, since the email you sent me is exactly the same as the post you made here, I answered it here.
Regards,
Dave
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Don't know anything about German law, but I'm quite sure that there are more restrictions in Germany when it concerns offering 3rd reich related items, than for instance in the US. I remember about the existence of Ebay rules telling about restrictions when it comes to sending 3rd Reich items to Germany. Also notice that the German militaria websites like the one of Weitze cover Nazi symbols on the provided images, unless you log in as a registered visitor who agrees with the rules. So I do really have the impression that these restrictions are the result of German law.
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Dear Mr. Hohaus,
Thank you for your reply; however, you have refused to provide the address.
In my opinion we should refrain from mundane, infantile behavior. Let us handle this issue in a constructive and productive manner: please provide me with the information I need so that we can ensure that justice is served.
As a positive sign of good will, I have no qualms with providing copies of my passport, which will provide conclusive evidence of my nationality and identity. Before taking that leap of faith, I expect the names and addresses of the individuals who besmirched my good name without cause or justification.
Aware of my rights and responsibilities, it is my right to provide an alias to avoid any unpleasant, undesired contact. Women cannot be too careful.
Discussing this matter in the public forum is counter-productive; therefore, we should settle the matter via the private message system. As long as you abide by a pledge to be just and cooperative, I have no desire to continue this dialog in public.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation and attention to this matter.
Kind regards,
Renée Alexandra from West Warwick
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Please read the 'Privacy Statement' at the bottom of this page. That should be fairly clear. I do not care to exchange private email with you on this issue. If you have something to say, please post it here. I continue to wonder who you are. The email you sent me earlier is headed: From: Alexandra Beine
To: Dave@germandaggers.com But you sign it Renee Alexandra Carolyn and your forum name is Alexandra Beilengries.
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Renée Alexandra from West Warwick, People like you make an otherwise pleasant hobby tedious for those who just enjoy collecting, this whole thing is much too silly. If you cheated one of our members, then please, take a hike lady ... Bill
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your for it now bill your name to will go in ze book.
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Way to go Bill,with all the names she has,ever thought she may be a cross dresser!!!!!!
Her attitude stinks with her bully boy (sorry girl)antics.You will never get it Lady so give up who ever you might be!
Right guys just found this little lot any thing of interest here? Best Steve
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wow, nice, they yours? love the athena, wanted one for a while now but to heavy price with xmas and taxman this time of year.
PHIL BROWN
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Geez Steve, you find the BEST stuff! How about that police plate and the others behind it? Are they going to be for sale? I need a few items to put on that drawered storage cabinet I got from you a few years back. Now, that's a great collector's story that few know about! Going to the SOS? If so, I hope to see you once again. Mark
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Phil, here is the link to the MCF forum seiler mentioned. You must sign up as a member to see the threads. Once you are signed in, scroll down to the "SS Allach" forum. Hope this helps. http://www.militariacollecting.com/
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Hello! Nice people here - no problem with publishing other addresses here, Mr. Hohaus?? And yes Steve Tedds: I love your fake "Allach" china, all the lovely golden eagles ! Hopefully this will be in Mr. Porell´s book!! Nice buy in Berlin from Mr. Heilbronn, right? Next time better ask the bully boy - hope the china was expensive since it is so exclusive !! Best regards!
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are you a disbelever of this AH allach, as obviously alexandra is??
PHIL BROWN
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if the figurines are fake, I 'll gladly take them! $50.00...is that alright for you???...LOL 
In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944
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quote: Originally posted by lloyd: quote: Originally posted by Alexandra Beilengries:
Here it goes on:
"If I should in fact receive funds from you they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law.
Thank You for your understanding,
Lloyd deForest"
Judge yourself it this is on the one hand true at all what he wrote about German law and on the other hand if this is a man who should stay as a member in this forum.
Remember: this could have happened to everybody here...
Clarification to all interested:My first correspondence regarding this Allach piece was with "Alexandra Beilengries" of this forum. I received the following emil regarding the piece as follows: "Hello Lloyd, I recently saw your Allach cup on the German-Daggers-website and I would like to buy it. My offer for the piece is $3500. Please let me know if that is o.k. for you. Thanks in advance for your answer regarding this. Alexandra from Germany" At this point, I received the following email: "Hello Lloyd, thanks for your pictures! I really like the piece and you can be sure: it will be in good hands here in good old Germany. Whenever you want to visit this lovely coutry please let me know: you are always welcome! Please send me your bank account so that I can wire the $3500 into your account. My address is: Alexandra Beine - Wiedaustrasse 70 c - 48163 Münster-Amelsbüren Please inform me when the money has arrived and pack the piece very carefully and send it with UPS, if possible. Thanks in advance, Alexandra from Germany" Before finalizing any agreement, I emailed this: "Hi Alexandra, Will be waiting for it and will discuss shipping on receipt. Have a great weekend and sure hope that we don't get any more snow here. Have 3 foot drifts now but still able to get out. Regards, Lloyd" Wanting to inform her of necessary postage, I queried several people regarding the proper procedure to send this piece. I was told that the German government would not allow Allach into Germany. When I learned of this, I immediatly sent the following email: "ALEXANDRA, Please do NOT forward money to me. Something has arisen and cup not available at this time. Again, DO NOT FORWARD MONEY. Thank You, Lloyd deForest" I subsequently sent the following to clarify the above: "Hi again, It is my understanding that the German authorities do not want or permit Allach pieces to be shipped into Germany and I will not even attempt to circumvent German policy by sending this piece to you. If I should in fact receive funds from you, they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law. Thank You for your understanding, Lloyd deForest" I then received several emails to include: "Hello Lloyd! I have send the money already and I want to make one thing for sure: I am not willing to let this cup go since we officially already made a contract which is visable totally clear! We both agreed to a deal and contract and both parties have to fulfill their parts. I am not stupid and if something happened to the Allach cup I want to get the broken pieces! It is not my problem if someone like Dennis Porell or Kris Lindblom or any other guy offered you more for it - we made the deal and we will finish it. Otherwise I may have to take legal action - and I am not afraid of doing it. Best regards!" Today I receved this email: "Hello Mr. Forest, what you write concerning german law and Allach or Nazi pieces is NOT correct and I guess you know that. It is just another attempt to try not to fulfil our contract. You should know this: I inform Mr. Dave Hohaus and Mr. Craig Gottlieb about your illegal behaviour concerning our contract about the Allach cup. This is visable to every collector and the whole public on the GDC forum. As well: I am a citizen of the USA (!) and I come from West Warwick in Road Island - so no problem for me at all to take legal action! I started it already yesterday and if you are still not willing to send me the Allach cup after you receive the $3500 from me I promise you you will get in trouble. The world is a village! So better fulfill your duties! Best regards, Renée Alexandra Carolyn" I HAVE NOT RECEIVED AND I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY MONEY FROM THIS PERSON OR PERSONS (note the name change). AT THIS POINT AFTER INNUENDO AND INSULT, I AM KEEPING THE CUP! (There is NO state named "ROAD Island". It would seem that a citizen of the US would know the proper spelling of their state!)
NOTE: Today is Saturday Feb 23, 2008. As of this date, the money that Alexandra Beilengries, aka Alexandra Beine, aka Renee Alexandra Carolyn and poss aka Thorston Beine had stated on Feb 8th that the money would be here in "4 or 5 days" has NOT been received. I told her/him/whoever NOT to send the money but was informed on Feb 10 that the money had been sent. As of this date, Sat Feb 23, 2008, NO money has been received and if it had, it would have been returned. There of course has been no need for that as NO money ever was wired! The piece is NOT for sale and will NOT be in my life time. I just wanted to update on the status and to sincerely Thank all parties who have been of help and contacted me. Hope you all do well at the SOS!
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