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#114200 02/06/2008 02:41 AM
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I have and have had for over 31 years, what Manion's auction referred to as a "Wedding Cup". I would like to be able to provide pictures of this piece here to ascertain if anyone can shed more light on the piece, ie: have they seen one, any idea as to value, anyone have an interest in the piece? Here is a description:

ALLACH WEDDING CUP
The piece is not in Oliver's book nor have I seen it anywhere else either. it's an "SS Wedding Cup" per Manion's catalog of May 20, 1976.

It is 3 7/8" tall, 3 1/4" in diameter at the rim and 1 7/8" at the base. It is white porcelain in mint condition and has the intertwined SS and Allach on the recessed base inside an octagon.

Approx 7/8" from the base and on two lines of raised letters is the following:
*SOWISEURERINGEOHNEANFANGUNDOHNEENDE*
*SOSEIEURESIPPEHNEANFANGUNDOHNEENDE*
(I hope I got all the letters.)

This Manion's says translates to "Just as these rings have no beginning and no ending, So may your lineage have no beginning and no end."

If anyone can receive the pics which I have that my daughter took a few days ago and can post here or just want to see the pics themselves, pls email me.

Many Thanks, Lloyd

#114201 02/06/2008 03:07 AM
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Lloyd -

You can send me the pics and I'll post them for you -

Gordon

GordonZ1@aol.com

#114202 02/06/2008 03:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Floridaguyz1:
Lloyd -

You can send me the pics and I'll post them for you -

Gordon

GordonZ1@aol.com


Pics sent. Thank You Sir!
Regards, Lloyd

#114203 02/06/2008 03:58 AM
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Here are Lloyd's pics .... a couple were duplicates so I didn't post .... I know nothing about Allach so I will leave comments to the experts -

Gordon

Pic 1 of 8

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#114204 02/06/2008 03:59 AM
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Pic 2 of 8

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#114205 02/06/2008 04:00 AM
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Pic 3 of 8

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#114206 02/06/2008 04:01 AM
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Pic 4 of 8

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#114207 02/06/2008 04:02 AM
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Pic 5 of 8

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#114208 02/06/2008 04:03 AM
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Pic 6 of 8

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#114209 02/06/2008 04:03 AM
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Pic 7 of 8

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#114210 02/06/2008 04:04 AM
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Last pic

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#114211 02/06/2008 04:22 AM
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VERY NICE! Cool


In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944



#114212 02/06/2008 04:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Floridaguyz1:
Last pic

My sincerest Thanks to Gordon for posting these pics for me! (THANKS GORDON!)
Note: Though the glaze "looks" to be crackle, it is in fact perfectly white. No damage whatsoever, that's why the rim pic, NO hidden damage whatsoever!
Further info is that I have shown these pics to a well recognized Allach authority and he states he has not seen this example before and this gentleman has LOTS of Allach! However, just because one person hasn't seen an item doesn't say thay you haven't.
I haven't decided to keep or to sell. I might decide here on this site!
Thanks for looking folks! (I will send any member pics on email request)

#114213 02/06/2008 09:41 AM
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Interesting.Never seen/heard of such piece.
An "Authority" said "If you can eat from it,drink from it,pour from it"dont touch it!!!
Seiler (Yank in UK) Roll Eyes

#114214 02/06/2008 03:02 PM
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i see no problem from this at all, seiler, you need to research more and ignore words of urban myth, allach were very prevelent in presentation peices, these were made for display. do you disbelive the AH plates, cup and saucer sets???? who told you such nonsense?


PHIL BROWN
#114215 02/06/2008 05:10 PM
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I,ll just wait for the opinion of those more
knowledgable than you Phil.Sorry dont mean to be rude. Wink
Seiler (Yank in UK)

#114216 02/06/2008 06:18 PM
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I have just received the opinion of TWO
acknowledged Expert collectors in the field of
Allach.Both are convinced of the authenticity.
Good enough for me.
Phil re the "AH" ware you are encouraged to go to MCF Allach Forum read the real "skinny" on
this stuff.Hope you didn,t buy any....Sorry to tell you there are few references on the market
regarding Allach.If you know of others please share.Yes I DO have several pieces.
PS,I know an English Gent who has a 9 (Nine)
person table setting of "AH" dinnerware. Cool
Seiler (Yank in UK)

#114217 02/06/2008 09:00 PM
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It looks good to me but I have never seen or heard of one of these before. Kris Lindblom would most likely know. It looks like something that Allach would have made for a special occasion though. The Allach mark and octagon looks like it's the real thing.

If it's for sale, let me know.

Better pics would be a BIG help.

Mark Cool

#114218 02/06/2008 09:09 PM
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hi seiler, im not offended, im very thick skinned, i HAVE got one peice of AH allach, bought indirectly from robin lumsden, thats good enough for me, however, if youve a link to this forum, im always happy to learn more.but im right about the wedding cup and im right about the AH allach Razz Big Grin


PHIL BROWN
#114219 02/06/2008 09:15 PM
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Mark,give Kris a call.
Seiler (Yank in UK) Wink

#114220 02/06/2008 09:17 PM
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Gents,

I think that tiptop photos would be needed for more in-depth study, but this unit has all the earmarks of being a 100% original piece of Allach. There are lots of great originals out there just waiting to be discovered that never made it into catalogs nor are they featured in most of the books and articles available to our collecting community.

Many thanks for sharing this with us! Smile

Bill

#114221 02/06/2008 09:30 PM
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Hhhm,

original or not - it looks nice and I like it.

#114222 02/06/2008 10:14 PM
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Kris L. and Dennis Porell have had a look at it and both, gave their thumbs up. Wink

Now, the big question is, "how much is it worth ?" Confused

#114223 02/06/2008 10:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat:
Kris L. and Dennis Porell have had a look at it and both, gave their thumbs up. Wink

Now, the big question is, "how much is it worth ?" Confused

Thanks Pat. I just got online and have email from Kris. I must answer his email. Seems like a very nice guy as is Dennis. I will say that the piece is for sale and now all I want to do is figure out what is a decent price to get for it. I have the original "The Fox Hole" catalog from May 20, 1976 (That is Manion's BTW) that will go with the piece. (I have all Manion's catalogs, or near all from the beginning.)
I will send the original pics my daughter took to any interested party here.

Thanks folks, great group of collectors here!

Lloyd deForest

#114224 02/07/2008 01:04 AM
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Hi all. I have just received and accepted an offer.
I am sure it will be in Dennis's book for us all to see.
Thanks All!

#114225 02/07/2008 03:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lloyd:
Hi all. I have just received and accepted an offer.
I am sure it will be in Dennis's book for us all to see.
Thanks All!


NOTE....NOTE....NOTE:
IF perchance this deal goes to pieces, I will let all you interested parties know. I have accepted the offer now it is up to the prospective buyer. Just wanted all to be aware.

#114226 02/07/2008 03:29 AM
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Who might this be Roll Eyes, Kris, Dennis, Kingtiger ?????????? Big Grin
I'm just guessing ! Big Grin

#114227 02/07/2008 03:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat:
Who might this be Roll Eyes, Kris, Dennis, Kingtiger ?????????? Big Grin
I'm just guessing ! Big Grin

Pat, an Alexandra from Germany is so far the high offer however IF this person doesn't come through, it's anyone's piece IF they so desire and IF the price is fair and honest.

#114228 02/07/2008 04:11 AM
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I sure hope that it get's through ! Wink

#114229 02/07/2008 07:25 AM
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nice peice, im guessing your offer would be around the $1200-$1400 mark,,, and worth it.seiler, could you please find a link for me regarding the forum you spoke about, thanks, phil


PHIL BROWN
#114230 02/09/2008 03:52 PM
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seiler, youve gone very quiete since proven wrong, still waiting for a link . Wink


PHIL BROWN
#114231 02/09/2008 07:13 PM
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Phil I was not wrong.I was cautious as a rarity.
It was cleared by people whose expertise I trust.QED.
I sent you an email and a second link.
PS,I have another life outside of GDC and others.
Cheers
Seiler (Yank in UK) Wink

#114232 02/09/2008 08:40 PM
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thanks, but i never read e,mails. you seem to have a good few replys for your time out the forums. Big Grin thanks for the reply anyway. Cool


PHIL BROWN
#114233 02/12/2008 01:56 PM
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Hello to all:

this is an open letter to every serious collector, member of this forum and to the responsible founders of this forum.

As it is visable for every forum member I bought this Allach cup from Mr. Lloyd deForest for the amount of $3500.

So we both have a contract and suddenly Mr. Forest is not willing any more to send me the Allach cup after receiving the money.

I have every E-mail he send to me and I send to him and I want to let all members here know about this - in my opinion - illegal behaviour!

I am a citizen of the USA and so - although living in Germany right now - it won´t be a problem to take legal action.

I would be pleased if Mr. Hohaus or Mr. Gottlieb would help me in this case since it is not good for this forum if members like Mr. Forest behave in such a way!

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,

Renée Alexandra Carolyn from West Warwick, Road Island

#114234 02/12/2008 02:34 PM
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Hi Alexandra,
I,m from Nth Attleboro,Mass..not far away..
Sorry to read of your "troubles" unfortunately money talks.I expected something like this might happen.I hope the transaction is resolved
as agreed and amicably.
Cheers
Seiler (Yank in UK) Frown

#114235 02/12/2008 03:35 PM
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Alexandra, are you related in any way to Thorsten? I am just curious....Maybe not...but I was told you were and if so, maybe there could be some problem.

In what form did you send the payment? This is a serious matter if it is factual as you present it and will most certainly affect this piece and any sale that may follow. Allach is "hard to hide" as those of us who collect it often know where certain pieces wind up...in case we hit the lottery and can now chase after them.

Mark Wink

#114236 02/12/2008 04:00 PM
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Hello Mark,

First: it is too obvious and visable to everybody (because Mr. deForest posted that directly by himself!) that he sold his Allach cup to me right in this thread.

I can forward you all the E-mails that he send to me: first (09.02.) he said that "something has arisen and cup not available at this time."

Then (10.02.): "Hello and again, the piece is unavailable. If money is received, it will be duly returned. Please do NOT send money. Thank You, Regards, Lloyd."

Then (10.02.):"Hi again, it is my understanding that the german authorities do not want or permit Allach pieces into Germany and I will not even attempt to circumvent German policy by sending this piece to you."

It goes on in my next reply...

#114237 02/12/2008 04:06 PM
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Here it goes on:

"If I should in fact receive funds from you they will be returned to you asap. I cannot violate German customs or national policy for any amount of money as that would be breaking the law.

Thank You for your understanding,

Lloyd deForest"

Judge yourself it this is on the one hand true at all what he wrote about German law and on the other hand if this is a man who should stay as a member in this forum.
Remember: this could have happened to everybody here...

#114238 02/12/2008 04:28 PM
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Never heard of this German authorities ruling??
I have bought AND sold Allach into/from Germany.
Never encountered ANY problems.
SEnt from UK AND USA to Germany.
Maybe certain UK Dealers can comment??
Seiler (Yank in UK) Frown

#114239 02/12/2008 05:14 PM
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Hello seiler,

thank You for your comments.
In fact: these german authorities rues just does not exist!

BTW: if Mr. deForest has absolutely a problem sending the piece to Germany he can send it to my relatives in West Warwick!

It is all too obvious what happened but I will fight for my rights!

Guess who may have an interest in buying this Allach cup??

A collector or a DEALER - so..?!

Where can this piece (like other pieces went already officially or not) go without showing up on the american or european market...?!

So there is the solution of this whole thing!

Too easy - too obvious...

Really easy? - Let us test the law!

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