UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum HACK-WERKE "FISH LOGO" ARMY

David: I was the one that purchased the exact Hack 2nd Luft shown above from Manion's back in 2001. And yes, it had a heavy nickel plated blade and very unique grip wire. I also have no doubt about the originality of your Hack Army.

hi serge - thanks for piping up.

for your information, "swirl" scabbs exactly like mine are seen in wittmann's army book, among other places. they're usually called "generics" and have the "flat"-looking bands shown on mine and others.

I think we'd all like support for your implication mine is a spanish fake. kindly provide this to us. thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
The Spanish Swirl?

Regards,
-serge-

thanks wotan and dons for the most interesting
extra work and details. much, much appreciated. and here I was starting to think I am a Swirling Spaniard!

dw

Hi David,

I would love to be able to add more into this wonderful discussion of this rare dagger. Unfortunatly my knowledge on these is very limited.
As to the swirl that I and others noted on the scabbard is as you and other authorities say are period made. That's good with me. If you note my implication was restricted to a form of a question.

Any idea who made these scabbards? Perhaps it is these scabbard dies that were found post war and made the well known fakes post war that are termed "Spanish Swirl" due to their unique pattern?

Regards,
-serge-

hi again serge!

it was a fair question from you - I just wanted info if you had any.

if I'd got "burned" well life goes on and at least it would be a Learning Experience...

I don't know which maker(s) produced "generic" scabbs - but as with you & others I'd like to. if anyone can help in this area please do!

and thanks again to all lookers and responders.

i have had some of the best armys on the planet pass through my hands, i have no problems with this one. Although i never really liked the swirl pattern scabbards

thanks roy -

not crazy 'bout them myself - but heck (hack?) it's what it came with....

Looking at the wide variety of comments which are well taken, a couple of points seemed to resonate well with other information on period Austrian manufacturing capabilities. Hack would seem to fall into somewhere in the class of an �intermediate� type of manufacturer using parts made by others. With Hack seeming to have dropped off the radar screen unlike some other blade and component makers with actual manufacturing capabilities that went on to make items for the Wehrmacht.

Looking at how Germany actually assimilated Austria into its empire. And the turnover rate of Austrian industry I don�t think that the dagger preceded those events. And any components acquired should probably be reflective of what was generally available to Solingen makers at the time if that was the source.

PS: For what it is worth the marking on the thread starter does not IMO look like a stamping. Which generally speaking would not be at all surprising for small scale makers on a budget not wanting to invest in having dies made. FP

thanks again, fp, for the generous help.

if not "stamped" into the steel by some heavy press how was it put there? looks "impressed" or "indented" to me - maybe I'm using the wrong nomenclature....

also: was it marked before or after wingen sourced the plated blade from klass or whomever?

deep bow your direction.

David, Speaking generally there are three different types of stampings seen. Roll, drop hammer, and hand stamp. Roll stamping is common on rifle receiver rings. And for daggers, the only comparative images I can find at the moment are for the SS chain links. With the SS hand stamp to the left. Noting that because the stamp was tilted when it was used - one side is deeper than the other. Whereas with the machine stamped example to its right it is fairly evenly stamped across the whole link.

Using the best Hack Army dagger marking posted (IMO). Even assuming that there was die breakdown* (unlikely IMO given the relatively low volume) it doesn't appear to share the same characteristics. (*I think that I may have some pictures of the results of a marking die that is breaking down, but can�t lay my hands on it (or them) at the moment.) Along with a couple of other factors that admittedly make it a littler harder to judge - but that don�t significantly affect my conclusion from what I have seen to date. With the other marking options of course being etching or engraving.

And as for the plating. It appears to be on top of the trademark/logo marking instead of being applied through it. Meaning that it looks to me like it was already there when it was plated. Best Regards, FP

What I think is probably the best trademark/logo image of the Hack Army dagger posted.

oh, ok, then so it's ... hand-stamped.

and like others ref'd in this thread with a similarly "off-center" logo.

cheers & allbest, fp.

Really has turned into a good little info bit here!! I was looking in Wayne's book and he notes that on Hack etched bayonets they were getting stock from Pack and Klass. he also mentions that hack has made armys. and..... I was looking at TJ's latest offering and noted he had a Hack etched bayonet. He made the comment that they placed the blade washer behind the blade shoulder and not on top. Thats a suspect post-war sign. Not adding fuel to the fire that this is post-war just a FYI.
Bret Van Sant

Bret As I remember it went for around 5or6 allot at the time don�t know what it sold for on Manions -New years good so far hope yours is going well.

quote:

Originally posted by cog-hammer:
If anyone has Wittmann offering #34 page 53 he lists a hack army. I went back to re-read what Carter had in his reference. Missed that the 1st time.
Hey,Tom, what was selling price on the luft you seen at ebay and then manions? did they add preimum for the maker at manions?/ BTW hows the new year treatin'ya??
Bret Van Sant

I'll correct an error on my part. Make that Tom Wittmann's new offering with the Hack etched bayo.Also he did not think the bayonet was post war, just so I'm clear on that! I was typin and had a gap in the brain, sorry!! Its the cold air i'm tellin ya!!!
Tom, new year is good so far got pink eye from the baby its all good dude!!! see ya round.
Bret Van Sant

Hand stamps are a possibility I considered. However, when compared to some other German stampings, the interiors of the known stamped areas look different. Actually quite a bit different IMO being more uniform with sharper better defined edges than the dagger marking, which makes me consider some of the other possibilities like etching or engraving.

With one of the problems in making a more positive determination of course being that the plating does a fairly effective job of concealing what�s underneath. Where even a closer look might or might not help (?). For comparison purposes a blade marking. FP

Another type, being the combination of a serial number with a partially erased makers code. FP

AllGood -

again cheers fp and others.

A new arrival on the JohnZ wall. You have seen this before (it was posted on an earlier thread), but here is my latest, a Hack Luft2.

The obverse:

The reverse:

The TM

The pommel

The crossguard

Scabbard top

Lower scabbard band

The tips

Crossguard from the top


John

Note the way the acorns point... the closest to the blade point towards the blade and the others point away from the blade.

John

Wow what a great dagger - Is that the same one I posted that i was looking for?

I believe it is

John,

Great piece, the fish is a terrific logo on anything. Well done!

WW2:

I was looking at some older threads and saw some excitement about this dagger a couple of years back. I think that you were one of the people expressing some interest in it at the time.

Don't think me rude, but I am much happier that I have this, then if you had found it

Billy:

Thank you, it took me a while to find this and I lucked out just recently.

When I look at this dagger, I find it hard to figure out where all the parts came from... I don't think that Hack Werks fabricated all of the components.

Can anyone help me out here? For example, I haven't seen a crossguard with this configuration of acorns before...

John

Interesrting T.M. Application looks similar to the early David Malsch T.M.!

A rare maker is certainly well deserved here.

Congrats John!

-Serge-

JohnZ,
Wow, it IS a unique dagger!
Where is it on a rarity scale of 1-10? 11 and a half?
I've never seen another one before.

Congratulation,
Janos

Congrats JohnZ
A great dagger,that finaly came in ur colection

John for sure thats the Hack that I posted the picture of that was sold on Manions years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by WW2-Collector:
John for sure thats the Hack that I posted the picture of that was sold on Manions years ago.

Tom, didn't Don's say he purchased that one from Manions? Also the Manions daggers crossguard rear lower lip ridge appears to have some nicks that are not aparent on John's.

-serge-

I was going by the maker mark comparison.Also compare the dings on the pommel swaz looks like a match to me.

John,
I believe the crossguard is a Herder, here it is shown on one I used to own.