UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum how to spot replica HJs, lets discuss this

I have seen threads on spotting replica SS, SA
daggers, but I think it would be a good thing to have a thread about deceptive HJs.

(if this was done in my absence, then please delete this thread..sorry!)

way back when, I remember that some had said any HJs with RZM mark that was horizontal with crossguard was questionable, as well as RZM marks with "canted" legs, and or legs not touching the "circle", things like this.

since that time I have seen pics of this mark (as a example for this thread) that the HJ is good.
I know a lip on a scabbard is a no go, but for newer members, can we update what we have discussed in the past?
I do not want to have this be a debate that gets out of hand, but lets share some info on what is up to date, and what to look out for, for US, by US!
I think its time for a "brush up" from our senior HJ experts, lets have a cold one, and learn some tips!

"GERMANY" on the blade is another no-no.

Every HJ dagger I look at the first thing I do before I pull it from the scabbard is to turn the HJ insert towords the ground and tap it to see if its loose. If its not loose I lay it back down and walk away. Mark

Mark, while this is a good indicator, but you miss several good originals as the diamond, if properly set at the factory, will not be loose.
A better indicator is the overall presentation and the fact that the scabbard on MOST repros is a dead giveaway. The lip, the paint finish, the leather and markings is usually a bigger factor than the diamond.
Also, look at as many KNOWN reproduction HJs as you can and you will find this lets you become familiar with what repros look like.
JMO,
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria
PS: Sometimes your best bet is to know your dealer.

Thanks guys, and Ron, this was what I was asking about, lets maybe see some KNOWN reproductions to compare to originals.

thanks so far guys!

Pictures would be a real help here so that the novices can see what to look for.

Dave

Here's one that looks like it could be be a light photo etched blade motto and maker mark. It has been paired with a real scabbard. Four pics, sorry don't have pic with the diamond, but I believe it was silver bordered and with a silver background to the swastika.

Maker mark. This one is also seen on the obverse ricasso as well, same maker.

Grip plates.

Blade motto and blade shape.

Perhaps someone else has the ricasso version to post. I've seen both 'new' looking versions, and also older looking versions of the ricasso marked type with better etching, and aging, maybe 30 -40 years old?

Hope this is of some help.

Regards
Russell

Here's another ebay-type item with the lipped scabbard. Two pics.

Regards
Russell

Closer.

Regards
Russell

Here's a link to a ricasso version of the RZM M7/2. It has the silver edged diamond, with the silver background to the swastika. The motto is also running from low left to high right on the blade.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/427101702/...650029594#2650029594

Regards
Russell

Another RZM M7/2 on the ricasso. The diamond on this one looks like it may have been replaced with an original, and it came with an original scabbard.

Motto also runs from low left to high right.

Diamond and grip.

Last one, grip reverse.

A pic of one of these RZM M7/2 ricasso marked knives is also seen in Frederick Stevens Reproduction? Recognition! book from 1976, so they're at least 30 years old.

Regards
Russell

A couple of ebay items that don't have the HJ diamond, but sometimes items like these come up for sale with an HJ diamond put in. First is a G.C.Co.

On the other side of this one, it is marked "Othello Solingen Germany".

Scabbard and grip.

Reverse

Blade

This one has the fleur-de-lis scout emblem.

Reverse..

Kissing cranes maker mark.

Full name Robert Klaas Germany on the obverse ricasso.

Regards
Russell

Keep in mind that the design of this knife existed before 'ole Adolf and after.

I cannot say about today, but in the 1970's you could buy that knife, with a green Boy Scout emblem, in Germany*. It had the scabbard with a lip as seen about posted by Ruski. Many have been artificially aged as above. Also the real thieves pry out the boy scout emblem and glue in an HJ pin.

Dave



I suspect that it was used as a scout knife in other European countries as well.

Hi

Is it possible to post pictures of a fake diamond and a good one next to each other to compare?

Some genuine examples to begin with a fake at the end. remember that they loose the deep red in the photographs but it might be useful if you have a suspect diamond. hope its of some help

mike

Early 23mm x 13mm






Later 25mm x 15mm




















Fake/Repro Below

M6/3 1937

RZM mark. I think M6 is for Aluminium items?

Grip plate

Another M6/3 1937, with what looks to be an original diamond.

Reverse...

Grip and diamond. There's also quite a seam on the upper side of the finger guard.

RZM and motto

Regards
Russell

Ruski,
Thank you, as well as others that have posted on this topic. I remember when HJs were rather inexpensive, and I feel given the hobby, and "times a changing" real Hjs are worth their weight in gold!
what better way to get educated on this dagger.
this is by no means to stop posting here, lets keep sharing the knowledge!

apologies for my lack of photos, my hosting website has banned me for offensive pics (hj diamonds/ sa daggers and EK's ) fascists

Thanks Paul. Another which is sometimes seen with the fleur-de-lis replaced with a fake or original HJ diamond.

Made in Germany is stamped onto the hanger.