UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum PANZER ETCHED BLADES, REGIMENTS AND CITIES.

Richard, The “circles” are not the main issue - because a counterfeiter can always have a new stamp made with whatever they want on it. While there are some other issues with the marking, the most obvious problem with the stamp on the frog posted is that it’s not aligned and was made using multiple stamps to obtain the desired result. The first image posted shows what I’m talking about using the yellow lines as a point of reference.

The bayonet is a fake and has an almost identical clone (very likely done by the same guy) that was discussed a while back. Among other similarities it was also numbered on the spine using a small chisel (or sharpened screwdriver blade) and was very obviously hand done (I’m guessing) because the counterfeiter lacked a set of fake very small “SS” stamps, and a proper period set of number dies. Unlike the Spanish M1943 I mentioned (and some Portuguese contact pieces I’ve seen) where the counterfeiters invested in some metal stamps to try and pass off bogus items. With the frog(s) most probably being purchased from a “specialist counterfeiter” who is/was faking just the frogs. (At the end of my comments there is a link to the discussion of the other dress bayonet.)

And ....... Surprise!, Surprise!, Surprise!!! there was a belt frog attached on that other bayonet as well. And another hand done set of misaligned fake SS markings on the frog (Please note that the center marking on both, besides being misaligned, are at different depths as compared to the circles at the ends).

There are some other side issues as well. Like black paint filling in the some of the engraved markings (covering up the bottoms so they can’t be examined) etc. But I’m sure that (most unfortunately) later versions will be improved and won’t go into more specifics. But the bottom line is that I personally would not touch either of these bayonets or frogs. FP


Fake SS Dress bayonet

PS: Is it just me - or is the level of “workmanship” as seen on the other dress bayonet the same as on this latest example?? Same guy??? FP

Frogprince,

Thank you for your excellent analysis of the bayonets. I think you nailed it. Your comparisson of the known bad bayonet to these two is great work. The similiarities between the bayonets speak for themselves. I hope this helps other bayonet collectors from getting into trouble. I don't think the owner of these two bayonets will be very happy with the data that the forum has provided.
Fred, again thanks for your expertise.

Richard Kuchta

SS NCO PORTAPEE

Is this portapee correct or is it a reproduction?

Need some help with this one.

Richard Kuchta

Richard,

The photos of the NCO Troddel are not too clear but it looks OK to me. Look for signs of age and pry open the vertical cords on the Quaste with your fingers and look at the thread underneath. The wooden form should be wrapped with waste thread and should not glow under UV or look like it was made last week.

They are reproducing these knots currently but there are some older fakes as well with 20 years or so age on them.

George

George,

Thanks for providing a method to check the age of the portapee.

Richard Kuchta

The really very nice bayonets which Hunertus posted that started this thread are what collectors are looking for and hoping to find. And if lucky sometimes are able to acquire for their own collections. They are some of the ‘crown jewels’ in the collections of those that specialize in dress bayonets. Those are some of the “plusses” of higher end collecting.

On the negative side it’s been said that collecting can be a “minefield”. And with the high dollars attached to “SS” and “HJ” and some other types of dress bayonets for example (not to mention the complete postwar reproductions of bayonets) there are a lot of traps especially for novice collectors to fall into.

Richard mentioned that the “SS” bayonet posted here came from a “very old and noted collection”. The point here being that even old time collectors can be fooled. And it’s not just bayonets. It’s daggers and swords as well as a number of other things. I have heard joking references made that there are more faked items in circulation in some of these categories than originals. And am seriously wondering if some of that might not be true - given some of the things I have seen in the past few years - especially with some of the items that are now emerging that have been squirreled away for 10-20-30 or more years.

As we all know many of the individuals who are selling bogus items hide behind poor photography to conceal their fakes from close scrutiny. I personally am still developing my own skills - and can’t in good faith fault anybody who unintentionally takes bad images. But if anybody really wants to have their items given a reasonably thorough visual evaluation, then high quality closeup pictures are a must. To give everyone who is looking the best possible chance for picking out the details - which quite frequently give away the true nature of the fakes. There are no guarantees. Because sometimes other senses are involved, which is why physical observations are best*. But it sure beats taking a chance with something that you can’t even see clearly. (* With George’s observations on the knot being a good example.)

And on the plus side - it’s always very reassuring to find out that an item in question is OK. Regards to All, FP

Oppps! My apologies to Hubertus for the typo with the “n” instead of a “b”. FP

GREAT SUMMATION FROGPRINCE. YOU HAVE A WAY WITH WORDS.

RICHARD KUCHTA

Thank you WOTAN for the request for more Panzer etched blades. I will try and post a couple that I took tonight and more tomorrow if possible. I still have not got the hang of all the garbaley gook numbers and terms on this digital camera so I end up taking dozens of photos and try and pick out the best of the lot. I have moved all around the lights from 200 watt to fluorescents but daylight seems to get the best detail shots. I want to thank everyone else that is posting on this group with their photos and their thoughts. I believe that is what makes the BCN Forum so popular.

Panzer blade 14

Panzer blade 25

Panzer blade 25 close up view.

Panzer blade 25 makers mark. JOH. HILLER BAD CANNSTATT

Panzer 37

Panzer 37 Close up

Panzer 37 Stamped makers mark.

Ralph,
Re: Your Panzer Abw. 25 Kornwestheim blade. Over the years, I have seen three others attributed to this unit. All three were identical and had no maker's/distributor's mark - only "Solingen". All were etched on both sides of the blade. I've never seen one like yours. Neat piece!
Here are pictures of mine. They also appear in Angolia's first dagger book which he attributed to someone else.

Reverse

PANZER 37. 1A

PANZER 37 1B Close up

PANZER 37 Reverse Side 2C

PANZER 37 Rever Side Close Up 2D

PANZER 42

PANZER 42 Close Up

TANKS 1A

TANKS 2B Close Up

TANKS Reverse Side 3C

TANKS Reverse Side Close Up 4D

TANKS AA 13 --1A

TANKS AA 13 -- 2B --Makers Mark
ALCOSO. Close Up

TANKS AA13 Reverse Side 3C

TANKS AA 13 Reverse Side Close Up 4D

I hope this was not to much over kill with the Panzer etched bayonets but it will give you and idea of what is out there in just one field. Collecting bayonets of all types is available from the reasonable to the very expensive. All the new members can start getting their feet wet as you will find collecting bayonets and other war trophies also give you a good Historical lesson along the way.
Thank for looking.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Never had much interest in bayo's,I have one etched one (one side).But your collection could sure spark an interest.Nice low cost for now way for new or young collectors to get started.Great show thanks

Ralph
Some of the most desireable etched dress bayonets I've seen. Especially the Tiger Panzer. I just love to look at "great" stuff.

This is a new addition to this Panzer forum that I posted last December. I am hoping that if members keep posting to these older forums it will keep them alive for future members that are looking for information about some of their daggers and bayonets. I keep reading in the Community Center Posts that lot of the older posts are being discontinued and a lot of reference is being lost. I can understand that some of the old posts need to be cleaned off the slate and it is evident that the main source of the whole network will only hold so much information and then it will be gone anyway. Collectors like to have reference to try and satisfy their self that they have not bought a mistake. It is hopeful that with the photographs and the comments they receive that this makes the whole project worth while.
Anyway…this is a RICHARD HERDER SOLIGEN single sided long etched bayonet.
It is etched “Zur Erinnerung an mine Dienftzeit beim Panzer –Regiment No 1 Erfurt”

Photograph #1

Photograph #2

Photograph #3
Thanks again for looking.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS