UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Fake Sawback

Gentlemen,

Have you seen the fake Yugo sawback at fleabay recently ?

I was in a discussion with a German collector about this topic and he kindly sent me these pics. Here we have a fake sawback made from Spanish 71/84 (with regimental markings), 84/98aA, 84/98 3rd pattern as well as one by OEWG. Enjoy the pics.

The Spanish looks awful !

Close Up

OEWG

Anyone knows where can I have my Jap T30 "sawbacked"

Keith,

I know somebody who has a sawback Lebel if that's any good to you ??

Good machinery put to a bad use use. With the easier accessibility to equipment that can make these �beauties� I would imagine that we will see more of them. It�s not bad enough that they have to ruin worn out low value bayonets. But when they do it to something that is fairly scarce it�s a crime made worse. Very sad...............

Keith

Can i use thes epictures on my site to further illustrate fake sawbacks. It is a shame that these are being done, a lot ofpeople will be caught out, all the more reason to study the fields first. If you wna to do Imperial German can i recommend Roy Williams new book, as it is generously filled with photographs, and you should also try to to get Carters books on bayoents if you can, considering the cost of a sawack and what you may loose is a good investement. For Roys book contact him at [email protected]

Hi Carl,

I have asked the owner of the pics if I can post them in the forum. I guess it isn't a problem to use them in your site. Thanks for the note on the German bayonets, I am currently out of town, will contact Roy when I am back.

Cheers,

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by aurelia:
Gentlemen,

Have you seen the fake Yugo sawback at fleabay recently ?

I was in a discussion with a German collector about this topic and he kindly sent me these pics. Here we have a fake sawback made from Spanish 71/84 (with regimental markings), 84/98aA, 84/98 3rd pattern as well as one by OEWG. Enjoy the pics.

Hi Guys,
I am new to the topic vbut I want to learn more about Bajonets.Can you please help me with some more comments what you mean by FAKE YUGO sawback?
Also please where can I find some books where I can learn more about WW1 and WW2 bajonets and daggers?
Many thanks in advance,
Peace,
Andreja

There are FN 24 long bayonets which have been modified by th eaddition of a sawback. They are marked with German marking for 1917 and Mauser markings, first appearence is that these are Jugo slav post WWI reworks of the German 98/05 with the blade ground parrallel, however examination of the pommel shows them to have a slant cut pommel rather than the S shaped pommel of the 98/05.

As for books it depends on which area you wnat to collect and the depth of knowledge you need. My site can be an assistance for some identifications and there is a bibliography covering a lot of the bayonet books, as a starter probably Janzens book as it is cheap and readily avaiable, if you can work in French then i sould recommend the ABC books, Jim Maddoxs book will be a great help, though the blades will seldom come the way of a collector unless he has deep deep pockets or is very lucky (probably both). Look back throughthe past posts as this will help here is a lot of information on this and other bayoent forums, and remember to ask, we do most things bar valuations

quote:

Originally posted by Old-smithy:
There are FN 24 long bayonets which have been modified by th eaddition of a sawback. They are marked with German marking for 1917 and Mauser markings, first appearence is that these are Jugo slav post WWI reworks of the German 98/05 with the blade ground parrallel, however examination of the pommel shows them to have a slant cut pommel rather than the S shaped
pommel of the 98/05.

As for books it depends on which area you wnat to collect and the depth of knowledge you need. My site can be an assistance for some identifications and there is a bibliography covering a lot of the bayonet books, as a starter probably Janzens book as it is cheap and readily avaiable, if you can work in French then i sould recommend the ABC books, Jim Maddoxs book will be a great help, though the blades will seldom come the way of a collector unless he has deep deep pockets or is very lucky (probably both). Look back throughthe past posts as this will help here is a lot of information on this and other bayoent forums, and remember to ask, we do most things bar valuations

Old Smithy,
Many thanks for your advice.
I speak and wright French, so there is no problem. Any special dealer where I can get these great books in one place?
Yes, collecting is a expensive hobby...and luck is a MUST for a good deal today.
I belive that in Serbia there must be some WW2 German interesting stuff left for us wanting to collect.Knoledge is absolutly first thing to have as it seems that there is some fakes always arround, vbut this is not a east task because there was a LOT of distribuitors and manufacturers.
All HELP and input from memebers will be deeply appreciated.
Andreja

Andreja

Do a search for La Hussard on the web, they will sell you both volumes of ABC, it is an excellent pair of books and there is a third volume to come to cover the longer sword bayonets. for Janzens i would go to http://www.ebayonets.com as Otto is a good source of blades (and a friend) he could also supply you at the same time his excellent CD on Turkish bayonets.

Happy Collecting

Hi Carl (and anyone else who can help me), I was just about to buy this sawback bayonet, when I saw your reply. I now wonder if it is good? It's marked MAUSER.

quote:

Originally posted by Old-smithy:
There are FN 24 long bayonets which have been modified by th eaddition of a sawback. They are marked with German marking for 1917 and Mauser markings, first appearence is that these are Jugo slav post WWI reworks of the German 98/05 with the blade ground parrallel, however examination of the pommel shows them to have a slant cut pommel rather than the S shaped pommel of the 98/05.

As for books it depends on which area you wnat to collect and the depth of knowledge you need. My site can be an assistance for some identifications and there is a bibliography covering a lot of the bayonet books, as a starter probably Janzens book as it is cheap and readily avaiable, if you can work in French then i sould recommend the ABC books, Jim Maddoxs book will be a great help, though the blades will seldom come the way of a collector unless he has deep deep pockets or is very lucky (probably both). Look back throughthe past posts as this will help here is a lot of information on this and other bayoent forums, and remember to ask, we do most things bar valuations

another

sorry about the bad pictures!

The exact marking is: WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER AG OBRENDORF

No good Kevin,

This is a Turkish M1935, they were not made with sawteeth. The stamps on the spine & ricasso are all fakes.

Actually I will be interested to buy one for inspection. I won't pay anything more than $45 but I know they are not going to sell that cheap.

Keith

keith

took the words out of my mouth i have picked up an Afghan fake S98 short sawback completly ruined a nice blade originally marked ot a guards unit, major devaluing!

I also bought a nice private purchase KS98 from Poland only to be marred by fake WKC & Gothic stamps on spine & pommel

Hey guys, can't thank you enough for the quick replys. That sucker would have cost me mucho grande dinero. I'll buy you beer, if you ever visit Denmark

Regards
Kevin

By the way, hope this is af good one cause thats one of my own!!!

pic.2

pic.3

Yours is real, Kevin!

One of the fakes has just sold on EBAY for over 700USD, obviously not one of this boards members, but if anyone wnats one at that i knwo the whereabouts of around 40, and coudl probably ge a coupel for that rate

Hey Guys,

What is a giveaway to tell if a sawback is a fake?...just bought this one. I just counted the row of theets (19) and looked at the whole condition..hope its not fake
[URL=[img=http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4962/807714441084bdf18d538mg.th.jpg]]1[/URL]

Hi Woestewolf,

I guess it is difficult to have a set of guidelines on this subject. But most German sawbacks that I observed have thicker blades, and sawteeth would be the widest part if view from the top.

Attached is a pic of my 98/05, although not in top condition but you can still see the teeth being 'sway' to both sides. That is to say, the teeth can still be visible if you view it from the edge (unfortunately I failed to take a good photo from this angle). This won't happen to a fake.

This said, it does not mean that those without this characteristics are all fakes, one good example is the Swiss sawbacks, the teeth in these bayonets do not 'sway out' like the Germans.

Hope this helps.

Keith

A few simple tips
Germany made no Mauser bayonets with saw teeth and wooden grips (well non after 1900)
Shortened blades should have the saw teeth running through the point, as the teeth woudl have been origianlly applied before it was shortened.
Mauser made sawbacks will have an S shaped pommel not a straight one
Look at books or my site for examples of what they shoudl look like i have examples of all but 2 of the post 1900 Sawbacks on my site (Gotscho and S98 long)

Knowledge is the key, a copy of Janzen's or Brayley is well worth the investment, of course being on this forum is a good start, there are some very knowledgable people on here that will ID and help with your problems (well all but price anyway)

Yes Have several books and after some study on the subject i decided to buy it...

It used to be that faked sawbacks only had the teeth added being a relatively simple machine operation. The trademark and spine markings indicate a level of sophistication that should be a lesson to collectors not just for sawbacks - but also some SS and other marked examples that counterfeiters are not dissuaded by having to put a little extra effort into their fakes.

It also shows where a really close examination might be needed because sometimes the fakes are obvious. And sometimes they are not depending on the skill of the counterfeiter. And sometimes it�s not the work or markings which are the giveaway, but the fact that they don�t belong with certain types of bayonets. Related but a little off topic, recently a German pistol and sword (WW II era) surfaced presented to different individuals where timing was also a determinate factor. My point being that with more sophisticated fakes you sometimes have to look at multiple factors in arriving at a conclusion - which was the downfall of those two items.

My thanks to all for presenting some very interesting examples which were very educational. FP

quote:

Originally posted by Old-smithy:
A few simple tips
Germany made no Mauser bayonets with saw teeth and wooden grips (well non after 1900)
)

Not sure what i meant here as of course they did until 1917 with the 98/05 Butcher blades with MAuser as the maker - not for a mauser type rifle. Sorry for any confusion.

Well....pretty sure the one I bought is real orginal.