UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum HIRSCHFANGER CLAM SHELL CRESTS

When you collect the hunting daggers and swords you seem to come across many types of crests. There are books on crests that prove over the hundreds of years of hunting in Europe with the main focus on Germany that the hunting grounds were guarded and protected by large groups of Royalty and Government. I will start this post with a group of clam shells with crests that I have no idea of their being or meaning. Hopefully it can grow as others add to it so this form will have an additional information chapter that others can refer to and enjoy. Please add any new photographs of the crests on the daggers in your collections.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Photograph #2

Photograph #3.

Photograph #4.

Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Some really great Fangers you have here! And a very interesting topic. They need a web sight on German and Austrian Geneology alone! I have one hirschfanger to add to this post, ANY and all comments on this dagger are appreciated! Kevin.

one more....

Kevin, thank you for the addition to this post. I know there is a lot of information out there on the different crests and where they existed and different meanings. It would be great to build up a volume of information on them as I see other forums and posts do with trade marks.
Photograph # 5

Photograph #6

Photograph #7.

Photograph #8.

Photograph #9.

Photograph #10.

Photograph #11.

Ralph & Kevin,

Thanks very much for taking the time to post these wonderful and hard-to-find examples!

Bill

Thank you Bill for the post.

Two beautiful clam shells posted 07, July 2005 in this forum, IVORY AND STAG GRIP CUTLASSES with etched dedication blades.
Photograph #12.

Photograph #13.

Photograph #14.

English Hirschfanger with crest on the butt of stag grip.
Photograph #15.

Stag grip crest.
Photograph #16.

Hubertus your killing us with this wonderful collection Thanks for showing them.I remember 20+yrs.ago on L.I. N.Y. going to shows at the old Electrican Hall and I would see Hirschfanger ,but who wanted them they had no swaz on them.Wish I had a bigger attention span then

Czechoslovakian or Croation Hunting daggers.
There is some kind of symbol markings on the crowns of both daggers?
Photograph #17.

Photograph #18.

Photograph #19.

This hirschfanger cutlass is the same type clam shell as shown in photographs 8 and 9.
Photograph #20.

Photograph #21.

Many crests are placed in the grip area.
Photograph #22.

Photograph #23

Photograph #24.

A copy of a recent book purchased on German Crests. It is old and written in German so I do not know what it says but it gives a large overview of the many types of crests designed for the period of this publication.

German Crest book.
Photograph #26.

My family heritage of Austrian and Hungarian decent may have created this interest in the crests. A long art background also brought about the design you see with name listing on the forum with our crest attached with the business header and family name.
Photograph #27

The following emblems of a crest stand for a particular garrison or something. A little knowledge would be helpful here as there are quite a few of these around on the clam shells and blades etc.
Photograph #28.

Photograph #29.

Photograph #30.

Photograph #31.

Photograph #32.

Photograph #34.

Photograph #33.

photograph #35

Photograph #36.

I will conclude this portion of the Crests for the time being. There are many applications of them on the pommels, blades, grips, and scabbards. Hopefully others will add their pieces to this post that have crest on them to keep this part of collecting Hunting and Forestry alive.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

BAVARIAN CRESTS ON BLADES, SCABBARDS AND POMMELS

This is a very smooth flowing damasks blade with an etched lion crest.
Photograph #37.
Number one of Bavarian Hirschfanger crests

Photograph #39.
Bavarian photo 2.

Photograph #38.
Three of the Bavarian photos. Crest on Pommel.

Photograph #40.
Bavarian photo four.

Photograph #41.
Bavarian photo five.

Photograph #42.
Bavarian photo 6.

Photograph #43.

Photograph #44.

I want to thank Kevin (heers68) and Bill Warda WW11 AND Ed Martin for their posts.
I thought there would have been a little more interest in the different Crests on the Hirschfangers as they tell a story of nobility that seems to show up on everything in Europe.

Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Very informative and well presented. I am awarding a "Great Thread" badge for this effort.

Keep up the good work.

Dave

Ralph,
Congratulation! You have the best collection of Hirschfanger on this planet! Thank you for always taking the time to show us your ever growing collection of spectacular Hirschfangers and memorabilia. Your threads give me great joy and my eyes pop out of my head everytime you post something. All the best and thanks again!

Amen!

Dave

some fantastic hirschfangers shown here , i must thank you for showing and have a question .
Who exactly were allowed `the kill` in a hunt , i believe that only royalty , nobles , and high class were allowed to actually kill the animal , with `groundstaff` so to speak only being employed to assist in the actual hunt .

�MUSTANG�, Anthony, I thought I had posted a series of prints this past November of the documentation of one of the Kaiser hunts but I cannot seem to find it on the forum for your reference. I will post 4 of the print photos that will pretty well answer your question about the hunts.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

Photograph #2a.

Photograph #3a.

Photograph #3aa.
Sorry about the duplicate.

Photograph#4a.
They look like the clean up crew.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

those are some really great pictures , it shows just how many were involved in a hunt,you know i`d never even thought about a clean up team to get the meat home.
i`ll try and get some pics of my hirschfanger with crest but my photography is not too clever.
thanks again for showing

This is one of my favorites. Ralph, really enjoyed seeing some of your collection close up. James

my favourite

looks plain ...but

coat of arms

that is the united coat of arms of Beneckdorff and Hindenburg as in ...Paul von Hindenburg

i bought this when i was 16 ...a long long time ago , neither me or the seller knew what the crest was

the blade is massive , spear point and very sharp , as is the top front of blade , the blade is so thick its immense , and marked with supplier name C.A.DEMMLER BERLIN ...a court supplier to royalty and gentry

plain , but obviously for using , not dress wear , no etched blade , no fancy grip ....but sure you could fell a tree with this

that awesome blade tip

the Bull of the Beneckendorff and the deer of the Hindenburg were combined in 1789 and were used as this combined coat of arms since then ...the exact same coat of arms is on the sword belonging to Paul von Hindenburg in the Deutsche Klingen Museum in Solingen and he loved his hunting .

Paul Ludwig Hans Anton von Beneckendorff und von Hindenburg

Jager and Mustang, thank you for the nice display of photos of your crested clam shell hunting daggers. With your description it seems to fit right in with the clean up picture number 4a. The final touch of the photograph of Paul Ludwig Hans Anton von Beneckendorff und von Hindenburg in his hunting attire is great.
Also thanks to Mikee and my appreciation to Dave Hohaus for the �Great Thread� award.

I can tell you that I have collected these hunting daggers and items for over 40 years and there are very few books on the subject for reference. The HOUSTON COATS FORUM is probably one of the only places to find reference knowledge and history on hunting daggers and related items. I would ask the many collectors that have some pieces to take a few minutes and post your photos and information so others can really learn about this great part of the beautiful daggers in the collecting hobby.
Sincerely,
HUBERTUS

thanks Hubertus ,
i`ve been thinking on that clean up picture , i know little of the german hunt compared to yourself so am asking another question , mainly bearing on my own hirschfanger .
if the beast were already dead (as established that the privalaged did this ) , and that there would be no reason to cut up the beast `in the field` so to speak but to pile it on the cart as in your picture of clean up crew ,presumably to return to base for the butchering and trophy , then would there be a purpose for the clean up crew to carry such a `weapon` ? .
i envisage my hirschfanger maybe as a `kill` rather than butcher blade , picturing the butchering and trophy taking more with meat clever style blades back at the lodge estate ....or if in field a more cost less weapon being used by the estate staff ,maybe using a weidblatt.
i think your pics and info are great and most informative on this subject , as you say there is not much on this subject out there so thankyou for every bit of help you give on this forum .
i have a nice mini hirschfanger with monogram on clamshell i will endeavour to photograph very soon to add to this topic . also as the pictures of myself aside Hindenburgs sword in the klingenmuseum in solingen are not very clear ( plus i had a terrible hair style back then ) i have asked them for pictures of the same sword showing the Hindenburg crest , if they send me them i will of course post them here .
antony

Mustang, In regard to chopping up the kill, the attached picture is representative of the type of tool most often used. Same as today when you visit a butcher shop and watch behind the window. Waidpraxe is also a term used for the tools of the trade. Most waidpraxe sets also included small cutting knives and sharpening steel. My oldest set is from around 1580 and would have love to see the game it has seen. James

thanks jager , that is one impressive tool , no doubting what that was for , i`ve never seen one of these Waidpraxe before , just goes to show that this is a specialist subject and you guys know your stuff and have great collections.
thanks again Hubertus and jager , i`ve gained a lot .any chance a pic of your 1580`s set

Picture of the 1580 Saxon Waidpraxe. Not many of these around except museums. Herman Historica auction house in Germany has one in their auction now and then. I was fortunate to find this one in New England through a forum member about two years ago. James

thats another stunning piece , presume the accessories all fit in scabbord . you can see where they got the idea for RAD hewers from .this looks museum quality.
really nice very early piece , thanks for showing

A cross and the lettering Der Stahlhelm is on the Helmut at the top of the 2 x 3 inch metal emblem. It is heavy with 6 holes used to attach it to double lined heavy cloth of a uniform or hat?
The beautiful detail stag and oak adorned wreath surround the crest inside. I have found many lions shaped like the one in the center of the shield but none that were exactly like the one on the emblem that is holding some kind of a staff. . Any help here will be appreciated.

Close up of crest.

A pleasant surprise coming from the new catalog of the current HERMANN HISTORICA Auction. A close duplicate of the sword I have shown on the first page of this Forum series on photographs one and two. It is called �A COURTLY HUNTING HANGER� Hesse-Kassel before 1803. The central cipher stands for �WL� (Wilhelm Landraf).

Ralph,

I believe the crest on your Stahlhelm sleeve-badge is that of Bavaria. The diagonal lines were meant to depict the familiar 'blue-white'
pattern on the BMW logo, Bayern's state colors.
What a great design!

Your imperial Hirschf�nger is a classic pattern,
it just exudes that refined, elegant look.
I'll bet that ivory grip is as smooth as a baby's-behind.

Best regards to one and all !

Bill

Photograph A
A new addition to the crest shields.
Sorry but no scabbard.

Photograph B
The top looks like a CADILLAC crest. A great looking hunting dagger. The crest has two boar panels and two chevron panels. With the boar on the pommel and also one on the cross guard with the two hounds it is a real beauty.

Here is one that shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Saxon Royal Coat of Arms. Not of the quality to be a royal piece so probably a pretty high official.

A new addition to a great thread, here is my Hirschfanger clam shell crest from Der Inf. Regts. Herzog Ferdinand v. Braunschweig 8. Westf. Nr. 57

Carl Eickhorn Nr. 1456 Hirschfanger, "Triple-Oval" maker's mark with presentation on blade:


Der 7. Komp. Reichswehr Inf. Regt. 17

Traditionskomp. d. Inf. Regts. Herzog Ferdinand v. Braunschweig 8. Westf. Nr. 57

Als Wanderschießpreis gestiftet von der vereing. ehem. 57er am 7. 3. 31