UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Helmet Forum My other SOS "blackie" find

As I mentioned in my previous thread, I found another black SS helmet at the SOS. Actually, a "friend" found it but I managed to sweet-talk him out of it and it came home with me...

Again, this helmet probably does not appeal to the mainstream collector since it is not what some people deem to be "textbook" (whatever that means). Most guys want a black helmet with the standard CA Pocher decals on it. This helmet pre-dates the decal era and has hand rendered insignia painted onto the helmet, both of which have wonderful age patina. The insignia are of the standard style and were therefore a direct result of the 12 August 1935 RFSS order which stated that all SS helmets were to be painted prior to the Nurnberg Reichsparteitag celebrations in September of that year.

The helmet itself is a WW1 manufactured Austrian M16 which has been painted black over the original Austrian brown colour. The liner is a mid-1930s update and the three rivets are brass. There is a name in old German Sutterlin script on one of the liner pads. This name translates to "Schneider, Josef". I looked in my copy of the 1935 DAL and there is an Untersturmfuhrer from SS-Standarte 42 (Berlin) by that name listed. Who knows...it could be the owner?

Cheers,

party insignia side...

Inside. The liner pads are tied up in a rather convoluted and strange way. However, the knots are very tight and obviously 70-odd years old so I will not disturb them.

The name on the liner pad...Schneider, Josef.

Excerpt from the 1935 SS Officer Dienstalterliste showing a Josef Schneider listed.

The kind of age you like to see on these handpainted insignia. Nice age cracking and crazing evident on the runes.

Same age evident on the party insignia.

WOW!!! That's what I call an early SS black helmet,a great piece of history and who knows, it may have been on in one of the early years films of the party rallies!!! and to think is in a great collection with a lot of black ss steel family, this is what the hobby is about. CONGRATULATIONS DARRYL.

All the best,

Federico

Great find Darryl. 2 at one show, what are the odds on that.

Cool

Cheers
Don

Darryl, I heard that a hand-painted blackie walked into the show and a mutual friend got to him first. I am happy you went home with two.

Good talking to you at the show.
John

Thanks for the comments, guys.

John, this is the very one that walked in to the show. Our mutual friend saw the error of his ways and let me have it to take home with me . It was good to talk with you at the show as well.

Cheers,

Very nice "blackie" ,Darryl.
I like the early SS helmets.
2 killer black SS helmets at the same show,fantastic......

Anders.

very nice helmet,
who expect blackies at a show

seems you didn't scoop up the black m35

maybe next time

Marc

Absolutely stunning Darryl!
Very strange original SS helmet are out there then!

Congrs!
Tom

Marc,

The black M35? Were you at the show? The only black M35 I saw was the one that Larry owns. He brought it along to show me (and others).

If there was another black M35 at the SOS I couldn't have afforded it anyway.

Cheers,

Looks like you did well. Congratulations, Darryl.
-Mike

Darryl

Nice seeing you at show!

You amaze me with your goodies!

PVON

Considerable experience is required to confidently collect such rare things. Our little forum is very fortunate to count you as a participating member. Thanks for sharing this great piece.

Congratulations.


Cody

A superb and a very rare helmet.....wow wow like it congratulation

Just when I think that Darryl already has all the "blackies" that still exist, he finds not one.... but two!!

Awesome.

I saw this just after this "Mutual Friend" located it. I was amazed! I'm glad it made its way to you, Darryl. It is cool.

quote:

Originally posted by darryl:
Marc,

The black M35? Were you at the show? The only black M35 I saw was the one that Larry owns. He brought it along to show me (and others).

Cheers,

Have to get back on that,
Maybe a friend of mine didn't got it right. Or maybe mixed up a story.
He claimed there was a m35 for sale from an advanced french collector.

I saw this one also just before Darryl snagged it. Wonderful insignias. It's hard to see the cracking with the naked eye but when you put a loop on it....Wow!

quote:

Originally posted by marc A:

quote:

Originally posted by darryl:
Marc,

The black M35? Were you at the show? The only black M35 I saw was the one that Larry owns. He brought it along to show me (and others).

Cheers,

Have to get back on that,
Maybe a friend of mine didn't got it right. Or maybe mixed up a story.
He claimed there was a m35 for sale from an advanced french collector.

Have to admit i didn't read some things correctly.
the m35 turned out to be a very patina darkened apple green one and not black.

Marc

I just received a digital photo from a good friend which was taken at the SOS this year. Here is (L-R) Shu, Kelly, myself and Ken N posing for the camera at Ken's table. I am holding the helmet discussed in this thread.

Cheers,

Are there any pictures of this practise of the painted shields ?

Yes, if you know what to look for you can find them in early (pre-1935/36) photos. For example...

And...

And....

And one for the other side...

The Grimminger shot always gets me. Previous shots have him in a WWI undecalled, black, M.16 clunker. This helmet has a different appearance to me. It appears small but has no stepped washer yet still retains a WWI chinstrap rig. Neat, stencilled insig. too. Any chance of it being a commercial style tranny? Like some droopbills it has a soft break side to the visor and a hard break. Never tire of eyeballing these old pix for cool details.

Robert

Here's a shot possibly of the same helmet--undecalled.

Robert

Profile shot showing a slight droop to the visor and also the harder break to the right side skirt.

Robert

Hi Robert,

I agree. I also love to look through the old period photos for the many variations that existed back then. I do believe that it is the same helmet that Grimminger appears to be wearing...obviously repainted and insignia'd in time for the 1935 Reichsparteitag. The image I posted above is from the period commemorative book on that year's celebrations at Nurnberg.

I have never seen a commercially manufactured helmet that utilized the old M91 chinstrap and had the lugs attached to the inside sides of the skirt. I think this is a WW1 example and in a smaller size, which makes it look sleek on him (however, the lack of a stepped vent lug is interesting). If the inner pillows were removed from the liner pads the helmet would fit a larger head size. Most of the helmets I own have had their pillows removed.

You are correct about his party insignia being stencilled on. Here is a close-up which shows the spray effect on the lower arm of the swaz.

Cheers,

Yes, I know what you mean about this helmet...possibly a sz.66 with its pads removed. Which German shell maker had that soft break? That interests me too. Probably a tad esoteric for the rank and file but stuff like that gets in my craw. Incidently, Grimmingers ausweis sold for 15K at auction not long ago. What a lucky score for someone.

Robert

There were many manufacturers of helmets during WW1 and each one (like their WW2 counterparts) has slight variations. The Bell-L maker is a case in point. It is very distinctive if you know what to look for.

That was a hefty sum for Grimminger's ausweis...can you imagine what his helmet and/or uniform would sell for?

It boggles the mind. Grimminger told the allies, when interrogated post war, that he did not know of the whereabouts of the infamous Bloodflag. It was apparently stashed in his bedroom trunk where it and a 'nestegg of regalia' remained until sold to a collector by Grimmingers wife when 'ol Jake kicked in 1969.

Robert

Here are a few more rare Grimminger shots from my secret archives.

Robert

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