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OP
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Hi
What are the opinions in this SA full Röhm?
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IMO and I am no expert on these,I think it is a fake because the etching is too thick and shallow,like me 
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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Thaks Zorro I`ll wait for the opinions of the experts on this forum I hope the reply soon.
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I like to hone my skills. Spine appears too sharp,crossgraining to heavy, 74 year old dagger and the blade appears flawless not a spot on it.All the letters appear to be in the correct shape but the inscription does not look like writing it looks like a stamp or a template.I think it is an original blade with the inscription applied latter.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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zorro-
Inscription later??
,,Alles Fur Deutschland,,and the Rohm-inscription and the E.P.S.logo foto 4+5 are the same also the collor and the depth of the etsing!
You can not see the grossgraining(little on foto 4+5 I think the E.P.S. crossgraining is very small sometimes You can see it on foto 4) this is a track of regular cleaning I think the claening with fine barn paper.on the other foto.
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I agree with Horstter.
Where are the other experts with their oppinions
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Take a close look at M/M it is to close to the crossguard. All Pack's I have seen and mine are a little farer.
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gottlieb,
I have seen by Thomas Wittmann E.P.S. Rohm daggers(partial)see nr.027-2841 and 031-28009 difference in distance to the grossguards?
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It is a very good reproduction.The maker mark is also fake.Here is what a real one looks like.The more I look at this dagger the worse it gets,but I could be wrong.I guess we will never know ?????????
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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OP
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Here some additional pictures of the crossguard and the tang markings
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Please show us markings inside crossguards.
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By the way IMO upper fitting of the scabbard is not a typicall PACK...
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The Pack logo looks etched rather than stamped.
If you want to criticise someone first walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when they come after you, you'll be a mile ahead and they'll be barefoot.
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zorro,
You can see the Early logo--Little hammering Siegfried logo-- on the site
thomas Wittmann -sa daggers nr:004-27846,this early logo is EXACTLY the same of jajan dagger.It is a typical early logo for a early SA(Rohm dagger)
You logo is differently,probaly later.
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OP
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The picture of the markings on the inside of the crossguard
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My impression is that the blade is a recent fake, based upon the questionable aspects noted above, Also, compare the "S" in "Solingen" on the tm's shown. Not even close.
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With out question a Fake EP&S TM not even close to an original
Sepp
GDC 0292 Gold
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Maybe a real ground pack that has had an inscription put back on it. Dont touch it with a barge pole imo
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quote: Originally posted by janjan:
The picture of the markings on the inside of the crossguard
Correct marking in EP&S crossguards should be S in a horseshoe.
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a fake with those marks on the tang are the fakers getting that good?
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i think poss a real blade but re etched very poor maker mark
Regards Sean
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You'll never really know until you take it apart, and carefully measure and weigh each component, and compare then to originals. Photos have limitations
Dave
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Regarding the Pack TM, this post by Houston is a must read and shows many of the variations shown on a relatively small number of dagger examples. Click here for Pack TM's
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Regarding the varity of Pack TM's.Right or Wrong I would not buy any dagger with the majority of the TM shown.It shows me why I think a genuine Rohm dagger is a rare item and of course thats just my opinion.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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I'm with the "No-Way" boys on this one guys.  E-Pack Rohms are IMO the toughest out these due to all the different logos they used. I would recommend only the experienced guys to tackle an E-Pack Rohm. Tom Wittmann will deal with this issue in his forth coming book. On this one of JanJan's...IMO it's a fake. - Sorry.  I dont like the look of the logo or it's placement. Here is what you would want to see. One of two accepted Rohm logos. (Hey, there maybe more..but only two that I like. Could be a case for even a third.).  
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In full glory. 
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It appears to me that in studying JanJan's dedication the fakers used the Eickhorn style template for the dedication. Which is most noticeable on the "Ernst Rohm". Here's the style of "Ernst Rohm" that should be seen on E-Pack Rohm's. Well at least that's my opinion. And I will stick with it until Gailen says different. Then I might change my mind!  Regards, -serge- 
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A lot of the same characteristics as my fake pack rohm as inspected one by Fredrick Stevens. Normally all the tang and crossguard markings and Makers marks are correct as they were re ground then the new inscription or new inscription and copy maker mark are applied to the reverse (so they are correct for a rohm as the once had the inscription). Most of the ones like I got burnt with have a very simmilar dedication to an eickhorn one.
When I take the blade out of min and hold it to the light down the dedicated side you can see a fractional dip just after the makers mark. Get it checked out by someone absolutely in the know..
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I agree with those who have previously stated that JanJan's knife does not exibit the "correct" characteristics of a Rohm dagger my EP&S.
I cannot say with certainty that this knife is a fake. As many have pointed out before, EP&S made such a large qualtity of these knives that their use of several (perhaps slightly differing temlpates) is plausable.
Having said this, because of EPack pieces being so commonly faked, I (personally) will stick to the "known" good Pack pattern (such as Serge has pictured).
After all, we are going to want to be able to re-sell the dagger...someday!
Good hunting,
Johnny
Silver Badge #0398 My Avatar = My dagger security system! 
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Hi
Thanks for all the replys.
Is it possible to show me the difference between the Eickhorn Röhm etch and the etsch of Pack?
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janjan, Here's a Eickhorn Rohm name etch. If you don't mind I have a suggestion. Buying a Full Rohm today out in the cold is not easy. Chances are when you find another it might be one like this example. Don't risk taking a chance. Look what happened to Mongo. Get one from one of the trusted sources here. Your going to pay what it's worth but it will be a real example. Try to find a "Deal" and you might be chasing a ghost to get your money back. Just looking at these Rohm etches is not enough. JMO and just trying to help. Regards, -serge- 
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janjan: Serge is absolutely correct. Something like this can be a mine field. You don't want to spend a lot of money only to wake up one day and find that it is worth nothing (like my stocks  ). There are some very honourable men on this forum and in the ranks of the well known dealers who will charge you a little more (after all that is their business and their livelihood) for you to be able to sleep well at night. Talk to Paul Hogle at Lakesidetrader.com or Tom Johnson. You will not regret it. John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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quote: Originally posted by Gottlieb: quote: Originally posted by janjan:
The picture of the markings on the inside of the crossguard
Correct marking in EP&S crossguards should be S in a horseshoe.
S in a horseshoe is most typical, but others appear as well. Pack produced big numbers of SA daggers, so crossguards from different casters were purchased to keep the production going.
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Hi Jan,
When the depth of motto and inscription are both the same: this is an original Rohm dagger... but not textbook: the makersmark is very, very rare, but does exist. The crossguard-marking AND tang-marking is correct for EPS, every collector of SA daggers can confirm this. Only "problem" is the "strange" crossgraining, maybe post-war?
But: don't buy it when you are not conviced!
regards
Edwin van Veelen
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