UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Gorings TIME Cover Tie Piece

Not sure where to really post this. Heres as good as any. For you Hunting [DJ] collectors..

First, the 1940 TIME cover...

I spent some time with the owner of the piece a couple of days ago. Postwar the piece had the emeralds and sapphires had been taken out and sold. The piece was very close to going in the gold scrape pile! The new and present owner spent a fortune replacing the gems. The work was done by a famous professional jeweler firm..

I really didn't have time to do a proper setup for photos but hopefully you guys will enjoy the couple I took..

Its a stunning piece...

Remember, this is a small piece,,the details are just stunning!!..
The owner would like to someday sell it. I had asked him a price he had in mind..He doesn't know!
He asked me,,20k? 40? More,,Less??
,it really is a fine quality,beautiful piece. For me some things can't be priced anyway..

Unreal Gaspare ..Did he tell you in depth how he ended up with it ?

Very nice indeed, I imagine the other badges he's wearing in the photo would be worth seeing as well..... I wonder where they ended up.

Thanks for sharing the images.

Cheers
Don

To know that this turned up in my backyard gives me a "Royal Excedrin Headache"!

Fantastic!
-wagner-

Unfortunately many pieces like this were probably broken up for the jewel and metal value. I assume most of you remember the fool that did just that with the jeweled dagger that Goring surrendered.
Jim

Mike, he's a golden age collector. With many fantastic pieces and stories to go with them! Many of his pieces have appeared in war booty books and magazines...

Just think how small this piece is,,,then look at the detail in the antelopes head!! A truly amazing piece worthy of the big man to wear....

*

Er G:
That's a depiction of a European stag I believe. A hunter you are not!!
Jim

Just makes me want to light up a good cigar...
-wagner-

A piece that us collectors of the Deutsche Jägerschaft can only dream of finding. Do we know how it came to be brought back to the States, can we trace it back at all.

Cheers

Gary

Very interesting pieces. I saw these or some like them at the MAX several years ago. The gold membership badge was there too if I remember right. I didn't know if they were original. They were for sale. In the above photo it looks like the bar stones are red but it may have been colored improperly?? This one also is unusual in that the stag skull is not depicted in the design as in the DJ standard design-this head still has the flesh and skin. Can we blow those photos up for a better comparison look?

HEY!
Awesome Cigars Wagner!!! Those are a tough find!!!

Great thread! Congrats to the broach owner and "kudos" for restoring it!
Johnny

Thanks Johnny..Nothing like that Tie Bar. A wonderful work and a great piece of history.
-wagner-

Houston, if your referring to the tie bar,,there is no "these". As far as I searched and the owner, there is the one.. The one that was a present to Goring. The one on the TIME cover, which is this one posted.. It has an impeccable provenance.. Yes, some years ago it was at the MAX and I believe the owner had won a prize for it or another of his items... If you know of another with the provenance please let us know or myself privately as the owner would love to acquire it or at least see/know about it..

Not sure 100% of what the original gems were but the owner is pretty thorough and a stickler for perfection. The money he spent to restore this piece many years ago was staggering!. The emeralds and sapphires are grade A specimens set exactly as the originals were..I have photos of the reverse but I have no permission to post them,,the reverse is almost as beautiful as the obverse in a jewelry making sense..

The owner sometimes wishes to sell the piece. He can't put a number on it and the few times he told me a number it seemed very high. He has said many times when he gets in bad enough health he's going to destroy all his pieces not believing there is anyone who care for the items like he has for all these years, wanting to 'take it with him'.... Sad and selfish I've told him many times but he is set in his ways..At least the photos will be here for a while.......,G.

A friend of mine has given me permission to post a stickpin of his here. It came directly from Lutz Graf Schwerin von Krosigk, Minister of Finance.

Cheers
Don

..

inner lid detail

....

Closer

Another

Thanks for posting that Don ! Another work of Art & class act. The fitted case reminds me of that Gold DAF presentation Pin case(just posted on WA) but , I don't remember ever seeing any TR cases with a crushed velvet covering ...but the plunger style release button and everything else matches up .
Do you have any pictures of the back ? I'd like to see how they marked the Gold content and MM (not that I expect to run into any one of a kind items like this anytime soon )

Wonderful pieces-no question. I still would like to see comparison close up photos with the ones Goring is wearing. I think we all would. Someone out there can do it. Where is the Frog Prince when you need him?

Bravo Don!! What an excellent piece. Thank you for adding it here and a thank you to your friend...

Houston, I've never seen the real TIME cover.. Did a internet search and the best I came up with was the first post. Maybe a member actually has the magazine and will contribute the close up.......,G.

G:
I can't read the exact date on that issue of Time but if you can get it I'll BOTLFI. These are incredible pieces to me and I'm sure other members of this forum. It's a shame so much was broken up and will never get the recognition it deserves.
Jim

Jim,,April 1st 1940......

Hi Gaspare,

Thank you for posting the photos and info about this beautiful and unique jewelry. Rarely are Göring's personal belongings exhibited in public, so I very much appreciate this occasion. It is unfortunate that all of the original gems had to be replaced, because one can only speculate what the quality of the gems were originally. If only some were missing then they could have been replaced with equal quality. Otherwise, this is still a special piece of jewelry, both artistically and historically.

In regards to the owner - at first I was disturbed by his professed intention to destroy this jewelry after he spent a "fortune" replacing the long-lost gems. Then I began to think that the owner might be playing a version of "hard to get" where the owner has one reason or another why he won't sell. So you are strung along for months, perhaps years, with the possibility that he might, in this case, sell the jewelry for $20,000, $40,000 ....

In either event, I wouldn't lose any sleep about its future.

Regards,
Dane

Gaspare & Don,

Thanks to both of you for posting these rare and wonderful items for us. Superb.

Kind regards!

Bill

Thank you Gentlemen.

Mike, like Gaspare unfortunately I do not have permission to show an image of the reverse.

Cheers
Don

Dane, A few years ago when I first met this collector he wanted 1 million dollars for the piece. I laughed..
He began his tirade of why do 'worthless pieces of modern art' go for much more. What is their historical significance? Why are Dalis pieces worth millions? A Cambell soup can painting worth millions? a print of Picasso worth a million? The scream painting worth 20 Mil.?a ring Elizabeth Taylor and another Jackie O. had made/received just in the last 50 years worth a million? etc. He claims the piece not only involved the designer, the artist, but the craftstmen/jeweler and the gemologists who collectively were required to get the piece made. It has historical value. Its a piece of artwork. I don't argue that. For a very brief few seconds I almost agree with him on price!
As I mentioned,,he has many wonderful pieces. Some in the war booty books, others in magazines. He traded other excellent pieces to get these pieces he now owns. He's cared for them and owned them for longer than the original recipients! Dane, I think the only one losing sleep over the piece is the owner! ,,,G.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Scowen:
Thank you Gentlemen.

Mike, like Gaspare unfortunately I do not have permission to show an image of the reverse.

Cheers
Don

No problem Don , I understand.
Thanks again for posting it though.
I'll have to lower my sights because I don't think I'll ever run into one any time soon.

The more I think about it , the more I'd like to get one of those cased Gold DAF stickpins now ..should be a "little" easier to find
I can hope !!

quote:

He traded other excellent pieces to get these pieces he now owns. He's cared for them and owned them for longer than the original recipients! Dane, I think the only one losing sleep over the piece is the owner! ,,,G.

In a way , I can understand how and why he'd feel that way. There are things in our Collections that (to me at least) have more Historic value than monetary but never get the respect they deserve. They take a "back seat" to Cambell Soup Can Paintings.
frustrating

Mike,G,Don et all:
There's no accounting for taste as all of us know. Additionally; There's the stigma attached to anything Third Reich and any items produced during that period will forever be tainted in the mass media because it is dictated that that's the way it has to be.
Any admission that items that were artworthy on their own merit falls into the same category as admitting that Hitler at times appeared to be a decent human being.
Collect and enjoy what we have available to us but don't look for any universal concurrance in this pursuit.
Jim

You're right Jim

Hey Mike:
It's good to hear from you. Will you be around during August?
Jim

Jim, That is the reality we should all know by now. You nailed it!
-wagner-

quote:

Originally posted by jim m:
Hey Mike:
It's good to hear from you. Will you be around during August?
Jim

Nothing changed here ..We're still feeding the Troops BUT , I'm hoping I can make it to the Max this year (if it slows down enough)
We're doing a BBQ at West Point today , if you guys were closer I'd invite you over

I don't think you can put a piece like that at auction at Christie's or Sotheby's. That's where the Warhol's and the Dali's realized their million dollar prices.

Was going thru some old photos on the hard drive and came upon a slightly better photo of the piece.

My friend had passed away a few years ago . His family who never wanted anything to do with him,,nor his 'nazi stuff' became the inheritors of all his marvelous pieces... They had wanted me to be a broker and help get the most for the piece..

I had got them 2 cash offers both exactly the same. One was from our late friend John Peppera. [I wanted John to get it!].. Anyway I presented them with the offers and that both would adhere to their weird[?] unorthodox/eccentric? conditions.. I had found out they were in contact with others and all to get them the best/most for this piece , and others.. Guess I can't blame them..
In the end the price from John and other were the highest. We were waiting for them to call but it never came!. I called and they told me they were putting most of the pieces in a auction! A auction no one really heard of! I asked if they were advertising about the items? What kind of promotions about them. They assured me everything was being taken care of,,not to worry....
- When you get greedy you lose,,period! They were greedy. The auctions brought them a fraction of the prices that the items should have brought! Bad for them,,but good for those who won,,,including a couple members here that got stunning, historical pieces! , RIP Bill....., anyway,,, -

Same photos but slightly better. Hope you enjoy....