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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I have a friend who wants to sell his SS dagger. It is a 188/35 marked. How should the markings be on the blade as you are holding the handle looking at it. SS, number, Rzm or Rzm, numbers, SS and should they be reading towards the blade or towards the handle, or can they be both? I saw the pictures posted in the other topic listed below, but in Wittmann's book I see them both ways. Is that ok or what? Also, are these heavily faked, this code? Thanks for any help you can give me.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Here's a picture of one from Wittmanns site:
John
John Merling [email protected]MAX Life member OVMS Life member(Ohio Valley Military Society SOS) OGCA Life member(Ohio Gun Collectors Assoc) NRA Life member
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Anonymous
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Great picture, that is like the one in his book, but can the writing be facing the other direction like this picture? Thanks.
Dave
ss.jpg (53.65 KB, 708 downloads)
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Joined: Aug 2001
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I would be careful, as I don't know of any maker that has the makers mark both directions on different daggers. Usually the 120 and 121 makers have the mark in the direction you show. Maybe someone else can chime in?
The tang markings and looking at the whole dagger, especially how it fits together would also be helpful.
Best, John
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,100 Likes: 102
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Bruv,
It is not right. Repro/Fake blade in my opinion. I have seen them in person and lots of pictures and the trademark is upside down.
The guy who faked this got the 188's confdused with the 120's and 121's
my 2c
Dave
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Bruv/Dave... not sure what is going on here but the dagger you have shown appears to be the exact same one pictured here: http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/detail.asp?id=301&pic=7#img And this new website is supposed to have a "Board of Experts". Doesn't give me much confidence. 
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Opening bid of 2K on a sharpened and retipped RZM blade that is now in question. 
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Joined: Sep 2000
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This is locked until I find out what is going on here. If you take images from a dealer site, you are supposed to credit where they came from.
Dave
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Open again for discussion.
Dave
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quote: Originally posted by Skyline Drive: Bruv/Dave... not sure what is going on here but the dagger you have shown appears to be the exact same one pictured here: http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/detail.asp?id=301&pic=7#img And this new website is supposed to have a "Board of Experts". Doesn't give me much confidence.
I looked at the "experts" page and didn't see an expert listed for daggers. May be time for them to find one. Does the motto and blade on this one for auction look right to anyone?
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Here's the dagger expert..... Houston Coates brings over 40 years of experience in the field of edged weapons to Empire. He is world-renowned for his expertise in the field of hunting, forestry, and shooting daggers, and presentation bayonets. However, his knowledge of other types of blades produced in Germany is extensive. In addition to his knowledge of German edged weapons from every era and type, he has an astute memory of the very early reproductions and fantasy pieces that currently plague modern efforts to collect. Every blade auctioned by Empire has passed inspection by our board of directors, and has been double-vetted by Houston.Wondered why the questionable Luft and Naval daggers discussed early this year, were defended to death by HC... Oh yes, i remeber now, they belong to one of Empires owners.... 
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quote: Originally posted by stirnpanzer: Here's the dagger expert..... Houston Coates brings over 40 years of experience in the field of edged weapons to Empire. He is world-renowned for his expertise in the field of hunting, forestry, and shooting daggers, and presentation bayonets. However, his knowledge of other types of blades produced in Germany is extensive. In addition to his knowledge of German edged weapons from every era and type, he has an astute memory of the very early reproductions and fantasy pieces that currently plague modern efforts to collect. Every blade auctioned by Empire has passed inspection by our board of directors, and has been double-vetted by Houston.Wondered why the questionable Luft and Naval daggers discussed early this year, were defended to death by HC... Oh yes, i remeber now, they belong to one of Empires owners....
Yeah, I read to the part about "hunting, forestry, and shooting daggers", and I said WTF? and didn't read the rest.
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quote: Originally posted by Skyline Drive: Bruv/Dave... not sure what is going on here but the dagger you have shown appears to be the exact same one pictured here: http://www.empiremilitaryauctions.com/detail.asp?id=301&pic=7#img And this new website is supposed to have a "Board of Experts". Doesn't give me much confidence.
It would be nice to hear from a "Expert Board" member on how this blade ran through the gauntlet of Experts. After all, they've been touting the "Autenticity" part of this unique new militaria auction house. Perhaps it's just a "rare-variation" and fully explainable.  Regards, -serge-
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There is only one solution: Expert of the Board of Experts should explsin it. Maybe He have not even seen it or He knows something about this variation we do not know.
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Obviously this is a matter of opinion. Everyone has one.--and I don't appreciate the nasty comments--and you know just where you can shove them.
I call things as I see them and I could care less who owns them. Can I be wrong? Of course.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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For what it's worth, SS No. 28 402 can be identified to an SS-Untersturmf�hrer. Here is one of his photos as a Hauptscharf�hrer. Enjoy! Ross Kelbaugh www.ssdaggers.com
"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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Edited for pointed personal insults. 
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Hello Collectors,
what is wiht the maker 188/35 is this a good Maker or not?.
The Logo from the Dagger stand of the Head at
121/34 or 120/34 or stand not of the Head?
Sorry for my question!
best Regards...
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Hi HD2, the example Bruv has shown is NOT textbook. The maker mark should be read with the blade pointing up. Could it be real? I suppose so, I've never seen this in person, you can never say never in this hobby. If it was deemed a rare variant, mentioning that in the description would have eliminated the controversy here and on other forums about it.
It looks like Empire has pulled the item from sale.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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In my humble opinion, it would be a very hard sell for the future owner of this particular dagger. It could perhaps be real, though I doubt it, but get yourself a "textbook" SS EM and you won't have to spend your time defending it.  I know that many people hate using the word "textbook" when it comes to daggers but hey, I never had to convinced anyone that my blades were authentic. That alone is worth a lot to me.............and to most I would imagine. BTW, I always hate buying "rare variables" daggers, they always make me itchy.
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Hello Paul,
the maker 120 and 121 stand of the Head it is korrekt?
What ar the Maker wer have Pruduct the 188/35?
or the 121 and 120 can man say wer have Product the Daggers?
Best Sebastian
Search a Chained SS Dagger
and a officer SS Degen
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Indeed Sebastian 121 and 120 are orriented to be read with the blade pointed down. The 120,121 and 188 makers are all legitimate manufacturers and to my knowledge have yet to be identified. Much of this information is found in Wittmann's reference.
I truly admire your quest for knowledge regarding early makers. Do not become discouraged that all the answers are not here, we are all learning. That's what makes this hobby so fun!
I wish you every success in your collecting.
Paul
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