UBB.threads Forums General Militaria Flags, Field Gear, and Miscellaneous Militaria and Regalia Forum Meissen Dragon's Nest Porcelin

Found this AD: "This cup and saucer set is of the very elusive and very desirable china used by Hitler and the German High Command, The 3rd Reich. Adler horst ("Eagles Nest") was located along the Austrian border where member's of German military and political hierarchy would meet at the summer homes of Oman and Himmler in an under ground room of ceiling 10-12 feet high that connected the two homes by tunnel.
Trimmed in gold, the cup and saucer's delicate design of dragons set it self aside from any other,,$1200.00"...pics attached,,what is the opinion of our knowledgeable collectors on this item and statement?...thanks,,Robert

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The Meissen green (and red, blue, yellow, pink, lilac and black) dragon pattern has been produced since the early 19th century, perhaps earlier. It is still in production. The Meissen crossed sword mark variant determines the actual age.

The association with the 3rd Reich is coincidental. It was produced then as well and used at Hitler's house in Obersalzburg. But, whether or not these pieces were used by Hitler and/or the High Command is another question. If they were, a proper provenance would be required to prove that the cup and saucer in your post actually came from there.

Another site offers a selection of pieces in red dragon.

Google "Meissen dragon" or "Meissen Drache" and find assorted offers on eBay and elsewhere - for example http://cgi.ebay.de/Kaffee-Service-Roter-Drache-von-Meis...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Also, I found the dragon pattern goes back to 1730.

Also, the crossed sword mark used after 1934 to the present (with an exception for 1945-47) is essentially the same. An expert could identify post war manufactured examples based on other factors - painting quality, etc.

It's also curious to note that your Eagle's Nest set is green while the other militaria site offers the red version - a 10 coffee service for two (aka a Tete a Tete) including sugar bowl and coffee pot lids at $12,500. Black and white photos of it in use are on that site as well.

Maybe the different colors were used according to the mood at the moment. Or, perhaps red is for an NSDAP hosted 4 o'clock coffee, green for High Command or Verwaltung (or is that the Gebirgsjager shade?), blue for medical, pink for Panzer, yellow flight/paratrooper or signal, lilac Chaplains, black for engineers or maybe Allgemeine SS, etc.

If you wanted the pattern without paying for the story, buying German Democratic Republic era pieces, made 1947-1989, would be much cheaper. For example, using google I found a red dragon cup and saucer for $110 and an auction estimate for a yellow at only $40.

Use of the Dragon pattern porcelain in the 'Eagle's Nest' (Kehlsteinhaus) is very well documented. I have only ever seen photos of the red/gold pattern, never green. I would go so far as to say the green pattern was never used.

Hope that helps.

Chris

thanks for the replies gentlemen...Robert

this is the reply i have received from the vendor of the green dragon china,,"Yellow, green, and red were colors of the Meissen china used by the well known Himmler and Oman. WWII veteran can attest to this. Documentation is in the form of an oral history"....Oral history is well and good,if the vet actually saw it being used,but i highly doubt it,,,Robert