UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Puma Navy Assult dagger

Some info please

1. About the dagger single choice
	are there many repros
	what costs
Votes accepted starting: 01/01/1970 12:00 AM
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Question.
What is a "Navy Assult Dagger"?

These are a rare beast, I think Wittann startes only about a dozen or so exist. Who knows the right number but there are not many. I've go a pic of one on my Gallery page. These things are all hand chased and the details are fantastic. Hope that helps some.

Wow!
Only a dozen or so.
No wonder I've never heard of them.
One never stops learning in this hobby.
Thank you ever so much Paul.
You're a fountain of knowledge as always.

i`m afraid i don`t understand what you`re trying to ask, and what does the poll mean?.

The Puma Navy Assault dagger is one rare bird and is IMO the rarest navy dagger you can find.

Fritziii

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quote:

Originally posted by blueboyukb:
i`m afraid i don`t understand what you`re trying to ask, and what does the poll mean?.

Perhaps our friend wanted to start a discussion and selected the poll option by mistake.
I believe that he means to inquire as to the current market value of such a piece, and if many reproductions of these daggers are known to exist.
I'm just speculating here, I could be wrong.

Thanks Robert, that is exactly what I was trying to establish, sorry if I have used the wrong area for my question, I'm new to using this forum

Yes--There are quite a lot of 60's era repros. IMO there really is no "current market value" as one accepted as original by experienced collectors has not been available for sale for quite some time--so it would be whatever could be obtained--I would guess $15,000 and up depending on condition and ivory grip? etc.
If one would sell it probably would never hit the open market.

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quote:

Originally posted by HOUNDDOG:
Thanks Robert, that is exactly what I was trying to establish, sorry if I have used the wrong area for my question, I'm new to using this forum

You are most certainly welcome HOUNDDOG.
You're in the right area for this topic.
Just a minor slip of the mouse when setting up the thread.
Not to worry.
Welcome to the forum.

HOUNDDOG:

We always advise posting images of any item for review here on the forum prior to purchase.
This is the best way to avoid being duped.
You can e-mail the images to me, and I will post them for you if you like.

Groundhog:

15k or so for a dagger that is so rare is not out of this world. I would actually expect that a nice shaped, ivory handled, textbook pictured piece would go for much more than that. There are no catalogs or auctions that could help establish what the price should be.

The only problem with so few daggers is that anyone buying one (and even anyone selling one) has almost nothing, except for pictures, to compare it to.

John

I believe I said $15,000 + perhaps +++

I've one ...

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Thank you for posting Jochen.
It even has an original portepee.
Very nice indeed!

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Thanks Rob! I had seen (in pics) before I found the mine, many types of this "special dagger", with different pommels or scabbards, even with other makers as Puma (is it the only maker?)... The mine come direct from a KM vet's wall in Germany, and was (and is!) "in his juice", with original hangers and knot, never dismantled! The parts under the knot on the handle and guard have keeped the original colours.

Interesting, but this type cross guard was not made at the time this early scabbard ( probably a WKC product ) and pommel were made. The blade is later too. Now if upgraded late in the period with the cross guard, blade, and later type aluminum knot, it is very curious to me why the early pommel was not also upgraded. Certainly not textbook.

What a great dagger Jochen!
Thanks for showing us a very rare original Puma "Assult" dirk with Veteran provenance.
I grabbed my Wittmann Naval book right away.
All known examples seem to have all internally numbered parts.
Of all known examples yours is the first I've seen, that I am aware of, that has the original portepee still attached.
Also the scabbard bands maybe the first also. Since other known examples had either the "figure 8" rope style on "hammered scabbard" versions or the "army" style scabbard bands on the "lightning" type scabbard.
WHAT A "FULL RIG" BEAUTY!
CONGRATULATIONS!

-serge-

Posting pictures for John:

Thanks Robert, I will take up your kind offer when I get some.
All the best.

JP, qu'elle pi�ce absolument magnifique !

John--Now that's the real deal. No upgrades or parts here. Super rare piece.

You guys need to better Picture taking skills : ) Beauty

Paul:

Thank you. It is magnificent.

And it was more than 15,000, Houston

But worth it.

John

The KM-vet said me as I bought this dagger in summer 2006, (he died unfortunately in june of the last year), that the letters " W O " under the cross guard mean: Wehrkreis Ostsee (military sector of Baltic sea). He says also, because I requested him about the differences between the "official" Puma "assault" dagger and his, that the dagger was as it is now, since WWII, until the present day: he said he had never changed any part of it, against another, from the scabbard to the hangers, from the knot to the blade and has no explanation to that; Guys! thx for your opinions and congrats.. I can only confirm, first, the old and total patina of the dagger, (particularly visible between the parts over and under the knot, on the handle and crossguard), and secondly, the fact it was never dismantled.. May be a fantasy of the dagger seller of this navy baltic sector, or other (No textbook:I take all the opinions), but undoubtly a period dagger, distribued as it, and used with the uniform.

Jochen--I don't doubt what you say--that the dagger has been this way since WWII. But it certainly was modified probably more than once at some time as the parts are from three time periods. The scabbard is the oldest part having been one of the very long ones at one time and cut down to a much shorter length. Look at the distance between the scabbard ring retaining bands ( which are WWII WKC type ) This is the distance used on the long scabbards-much too much for the shorter WWII type. Also look at the tip--the scabbard does not taper enough to exactly fit the tip. Also there is a bit of disturbance to the design in that area. This indicates that the lower part of the scabbard was cut off quite a bit and the tip re attached. Looking closely you probably can see where this was done.
There is at least one example of this type scabbard in Wittmann's book.

Houston, No problem for me with your opinion, you're an expert, and know more about daggers as me! I said only, that I'd seen with this dagger, the differences with the "holly Puma assault dagger" ( ): I asked the vet about and his answer was the dagger which had been attribued to him at the period was the same I had in my hands this day! I don't know who has (professionaly) modified it, but it's that way.. I'm happy to have it, whith its evident anachronisms, (The vet showed me pics of him with the dagger on his uniform and I regret only do not have scanned the pics at that time... grrr!)...
I wait now on the same as Paul...I think I'll wait a long time..
Best and friendly regards from the old Europe, to the new world!
Jean-Pierre (Jochen)

A picture is always worth a thousand words. It would be a wonderful thing to have it. I would be trying to get it if I were you.

Too late... unfortunately, as I said, the man is dead now, I learned the novel when I hoped the new year 2008 to him (I learned also all his other souvenirs were dispatched by his family!) He had no idea that a computer or a scanner was, and I don't had with me a numeric, I thought my eyes were enought ... but hypnotized with the dagger...

and for refernce a repo - by Klaas!

I wonder of the blade is real - or if the 'fakers' have given us all something more to be wary of...

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