UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories German Military Uniform Forum Army visor cap, what division?

Bought this cap and a flag at a little auction,is it a real one and what division?The pipeing is faded or has been worn in the rain because it is rose red colored in protected areas and a light pink or even almost white in other areas.Pretty good shape with no holes and leather strap and bill in good shape,liner is intact with no rips but some cracks.Didnt have to give a whole lot for it.

eagle has a silver wash

Well it was originally Infantry white. Someone coloured the white piping (post war) with a pink marker to make it a Panzer cap which of course is more desirable.

I wish people would leave things alone..

Glenn

paid 280.00 just left a proxy bid ,didnt think it would go that high.

sure looks like it was wet from stain in liner

last pic

Thanks,The flag is double sided about 4x6 feet and is mint.The circles are sewed on with printed swaz,got it for 150.00, at least I got one decent item.Is the hat totally ruined and should I try and color it with pink and make a panzer out of it?I know I could do a better job of it than they did.

I think there is more to this hat than the creative penmanship on the piping. Look at the exterior of the hat and all of that exposed stitching for the sweatband. #1 that should NOT be like that and #2, some of the buckling of the sweatband to the inside might be indicative of a too large sweatband added later. When this re-work was done, you cannot be certain but for sure the stitching should NOT be that obvious.

I do not believe that chinstrap belongs to this hat either. (Just to name two things I see wrong with this piece. (one man's opinion)

Can you send it back? Teller-form visors do not command the higher prices that a 'prettier' sattle-form visor does. You can surrely pick one up that does not have these liabilities for around the same price, maybe a little more.

Thanks,it may be messed with in more ways than one,who knows .No I cant send it back as it was an auction.I went ahead and made a "panser" out of it,had to do something.Oh well live and learn.

"panzer"

Not to say that this hat wasn't messed with post war, but I had a shoulderboard that was originally panzer pink rayon, and the piping was overpainted yellow. if you didn't look on the underside you would just thought it was a signals board.

Obviously this guy transferred uunits and didn't have the means to get the right insignia. Not that this happened all of the time, but it did happen.

Thanks Mr.Jerry,What do flags like this one sell for on average?I am going to sell the cap,I think I can get my 280.00 back out of it.

I can also verify that I have gotten visor hats and collar tabs (still sewn on the uniform!) which had been recolored due to transfer. This was done as the soldiers of the time did not earn money to burn and was often offered as a service from the tailor from what I had been told. I posess a Waffenrock which is yellow piped (24th PD) but was originally pink piped (Pz Rgt 2)and was from the brother who was killed in action. I recently traded a GJ officers jacket which was all originally sewn but with GJ shoulder boards (replaced the Infantry) and the infantry tabs were colored. This could be clearly seen on the wedding photo which came with the group.

quote:

Originally posted by eric seat:
Thanks Mr.Jerry,What do flags like this one sell for on average?I am going to sell the cap,I think I can get my 280.00 back out of it.

The flag should bring $100-175, depending on how much the new buyer needs it.

Regarding the hat, there are plenty of collectors that would buy this if the price was right...people collect all onditions of stuff.

Thanks for the info,Wow these dealers must be crazy on these militaria sites because they are asking 300.00-400.00 for a flag this nice.If you know of any mint flags like this(or larger/smaller) for 100.00 I will buy them,just send me an email.

Eric,

Place yours for sale @ $300-400 and see if you can sell it.

Why do you think you see them on the dealers sites for that amount? They are waiting for some sucker to spend that much. I have 3 or four as nice or close to it and I have been taking to shows for about 2 years with a price of $175.

Here they sit.

Fran,Send me pics and descriptions,sizes of your flags to eric@iowasocean.com and you may not have to sit on them another 2 years.If they are as nice as this one iam sure we can work something out.No fadeing,holes,stains, tears, or just poor quality sloppy made flags.

Greetings to all,

This cap in question provides a good subject for study in determination of original but altered pieces.

"Magic Marker" jobs were quite common in the 1960's and 70's. Typically infantry caps were converted to "Panzer" as white wool readily accepted the magic marker ink.

As Mr. Jerry mentioned, piping re-coloration was done during the period. Common examples of this are seen in the Gemeinden Polizei visor caps where the bordeaux red piping was painted over with a green oil based paint when these units were absorbed into the Schutzpolizei. There was another period procedure that involved the application of dye into wool piping but this is rarely encountered.

Fran's comments are quite valid in regards to the lower band stitching. One of the design elements of the lower band piping was that it cover the stitching line. Sometimes one may find a few out of place stitches, but not so many as seen here.

A list of Tailors service that I owned did list sweatband replacement as a service, so such work was done during the period, however I still would expect to see neater work, unless the tailor was drunk when he did it!