UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Import of Third Reich Edged weapons into the UK

Gentlemen, I raised this in the previous thread but as that subject was specifically relating to items imported from the US to Canada, I thought it worth raising this as a thread in it's own right for the interest of UK purchasers.

There does seem to be a view that if a US dealer labels a package containing edged weapons as 'Old Wall decorator' when sending to Europe all is fine regarding the import duty situation. This is actually not the case, the UK purchaser is often whacked for a high rate of duty when the goods are delivered.
Labeling the package as ' Old Wall Decorator' or similar, can and does cause UK Customers to get hit with 17.5% VAT (value added tax at prevailing rate) and at least 1.7% Duty, both payable to the courier at the doorstep on receipt of the goods. When I purchased a Puma HJ from a respected US dealer; it came with the usual 17.5% VAT and a whopping 12.7% Duty! I paid the courier but immediately queried this with British Customs. The reason for this was that in the absence of a more complete item description or a Customs code, the authorities make an assumption on what is the correct taxation bracket for the item.

Some surprising points here; firstly, it appears there is no stigma whatsoever attached to collecting Third Reich artifacts as far as British Customs are concerned, so we collectors are not being penalised for this. Secondly, after a long discussion with a customs officer it transpired that the increased rate I had been hit with, due to some sort of competitive trade situation that exists between Europe and the US, was actually wholly inappropriate for items of genuine historical interest, edged or otherwise.This is why it is so important to obtain the correct import code.
'Genuine historic interest ' in British Customs terms is defined as "having demonstrable provenance, i.e date stamped or with documentation, known history or supported by expert testimony, i.e confirmation that the item is genuine from an authority such as a registered dealer". This is fact.

In practice, Customs seem satisfied with the items ' historical ' status if the package is marked with the correct numerical code and to my knowledge rarely ask for more than that although there could I imagine , be the occasional spot check.If you don't state that the goods are items of historical interest the assumption may be that the goods are new 'gift' related which attract a much higher duty. I learnt this to my cost on no less than 3 high value purchases from the US.

This 'Items of Historical Interest code' was at the time 97050000790 (check though, I haven't purchased high value items overseas for a while, I can give you the Customs contact phone numbers) ; this code should be clearly marked on the package along with a brief item description , i.e "Historic ceremonial Cutlery" , and the recipient will then only be charged the following'

- Courier clearance fee (Parcel Force take over responsibility for shipments as they enter UK VAT) �13.50 GBP Flat fee
- Value Added Tax ; at 1.7 %
- ZERO excise duty

Again, these figures are a couple of years old but if you are a UK purchaser , ring customs, they are very helpful.

I used this method when I purchased an SS Nickel silver enlisted buckle from a respected Canadian based dealer, describing the item as " 1 Historic Buckle " with the correct code and it worked fine, my total import costs being �24.44 GBP on a $410 item.

Also , when I wrote to Customs and pointed out the duty error on the Puma HJ purchased from the US, I received a full refund from for the difference between the correct amount I should have been charged and the incorrect amount based on the 'assumed' category, in this case that sum was �46.00 GBP, approx $81.00 USD

.The bottom line is that sometimes the 'Old Wall decorator' approach will work but the three experiences I had prove it is a lottery. At the doorstep or parcel depot, your only choice is to pay up or reject the delivery.If you use my method the big plus is that you can happily declare full value and rest assured your highly valued item will be properly insured while in transit and you're doing the right thing re customs.

My experience and advice is to be open, talk to Customs and they are immensely helpful (ref my refund) if they catch you out trying to dodge duty they'll take an interest in you in the future.


There is more detail than I have captured here but I hope this helps, if anyone wants to know more just shout.

Regards KM

I would hate paying crazy BS taxes like that! Sad that some people will not start voting out these idiot politicians whom seek power by raising taxes.

Sounds lie Socialism at it�s finest. I am sure the USA will start heading down the same path soon.

The anal nature of the beaurocracy is certainly very British, but we're all used to that! The truth is that the taxation infrastructure exists largely unchanged regardless of the incumbent political party running the government. It's all a means to raise funds for the national coffers just like speed cameras and fuel tax, yup coming your way soon I'm sure!

They are already there.!
Seiler (Yank in UK)

Kriegs, I'm sure there are couple of members here who have more info on this, if my failing memory serves me right members 'baz69' and maybe 'Steve Tedds' know how to get things cheaply and safely from the US to the UK.
Myself? well I've brought several items from the US and indeed just today commented on how it's done, haven't even checked the replies yet , how I see it is that UK customs don't even check the contents of anything entering the UK with a value of less than (used to be �30/$50) , however putting such a low value on an item that could be worth kkkk's could carry a risk and that what was what I asked today, will check for replies after this and get back to you if need to.

Nolan

ahhh but you get "free" health care! What a deal!

"there are not free lunches, someone always pays" IE the taxpayer

I have tried it many ways and always been hit with hefty tax, return from appraisal, reproduction, low value item. Basically I was told that they just tax everything as they rely on people not bothering to complain!.

One thing is for sure though if you are importing high value items and go putting $8,000 chained ss dagger etc, it will likely be stolen or lost in transit. Also I recently found out that insurance will not cover antiques so you need to check your policy very carfully before you feel covered. For this reason I have all my stuff written down as "film prop" or "reproduction". Then if they do check it when they put the tax on they tend not to steal it as well.

Eric, you are right we do have free health care. But a lot of expensive drugs for serious illness are not given out because of the costs. But private medical insurance is not very expensive mine is less than $100 per month with BUPA and it has no excess or limit on it.

Your right about customs (and inland revenue) taxing first and asking later,. That's what I said in my original thread, but then you just claim it back.
Your insurers will cover daggers (in the UK anyway). I have the most expensive pieces covered under "All Risks"on a household contents policy that means away from the home as well as if they are stolen from the home. Also they are listed as Ceremonial Military cutlery...which is what they are.
I heard somewhere also they are not antiques until they are over 100 years old?

Up to you, it's still a risk if your 'film prop' gets lifted and you try and claim 8k back for it.

KM

I have been hit a few times , probably 1 in 3 i think if life is busy at customs things get moved through,
I think you are right in saying an antique is deemed as being 100 years old(not long to go)
I also read that if an import is classed as a gift there is a limit on what C&E can charge , its well worth looking into.

If i ever was lucky enough to get a chained SS i wopuld be happy to pay the duty, unless as mongo stated try to find one here.

steve

Other than items brought in with household effects,I always ask for the declaration to
read "Decorative Wall hanger" with as bland
external packaging from guys like TJ/TW.
Yet to be caught
Seiler (yank in uk)