UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Totenkopf cufftittle

Just got this at a show this morning, opinions please.

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Sorry colleague Davies,not for me Im afraid !

Hooper,

If you don't like something, please tell us why ... in detail.

Read our Code of Conduct, please. It asks that if you have a negative opinion of someone's piece, you must say why.

Thanks,

Dave

OK Guys, I can confidently say that this one is 'off the mark'(after eating some crow regarding other opinions offered by me regarding SS cuffs) It is a poor attempt at the RZM type cuff.

I'm not sure that if an opinion is asked for a detailed explanaition must follow. Just about all of the serious SS collectors have been chased away from this forum (including the old moderator!) Lets not chase away the few good people left with both experience and original artifacts because of technicalities.

And while I do understand that unrequested "negative bashing" without evidence of an item can be bad, I feel somtimes a simple "yea" or "nay" will suffice.(ok, I am climbing off the soapbox...)

Sadly I do agree with the negative comments.

The lettering is not up to the RZM standards, it is in fact quite sloppy. The spacing between the letters is also quite wrong, and the backing of the letters don't have the right bobin thread. It also looks like 6 stranded borders, and while they did exist on some cufftites, I do not believe this is one of them. If you look in Angolias book on SS cloth you will see what I mean about the lettering.

I have given my opinion based on the image provided by Mr Davies who has stated he has already bought the item!
If I was at a militaria show and the gentlman asked my opinion on this after purchasing it, which has happened several times then my answer would still be the same [ you tend to keep your dealer friends this way]
Now if the the item was up for discussion and was "sale pending" I would have given a more detailed answer excellently put by Mr Jerry.
DONT knock peoples confidence in this hobby if you have bought an item and its bad you dont have to disect it bit by bit for all to snear at!
Do research buy the books if its cheap keep away and most importantly dont trust ANYONE,knowledge is all in this game and of course buyer beware always,,,,,,,,,,HOOPER

Bad cuff title!

Embroidery says it all! Sometimes when an item is an obvious fake I dont bother to give detailed info about why. Sometimes when Im in the mood, I do it any way.

And... price has nothing to do with originality! Its another thing that its safer to buy for market price form a rspected dealer with money back guarantee.
You should only ask your self why he sell an item for a fraction of the marked price? My best purchases has most of the times been far below market price.

Sorry,
Felix

Some of us turn to this site for information, isn't that what it is about? And some never post anything or reply (I wonder why?). Sharing information, opinions and showing off collections - isn't it whats it is about. I am not very knowledgable about SS cloth items and want to learn. I would NEVER buy anything from a dealer unless I have a 100% return privilage. I posted this to learn somthing and it looks like I learned more than intended or expected. I guess if somthing is wrong with an item, why wouldn't you try to educate a fellow colector so this person would not get burned in the future... Remeber - We all started somewere.

I am done..............

I think some feel people should use the search function here more then it is used, because most of the time you can find your answer there and then you don't have to ask the question. Regardless if its something I could help you with I would but I don't know a damn thing about cloth 3rd Reich Collectables, and I don't want to give any false answers as that would be counter productive.. Anyways happy hunting!!!

Well fellow members I have tried to be diplomatic as always regarding posted SS items that are obviously reproduced after wars end.
What would our past colleague John Pic have said had he seen this cuff title without a collector knowing even a small amount of knowledge from reading books and holding real ones in hand? of course John would have been to the point within a sentance and would have said buy books and get to know your stuff.
Yes I agree these forums are indeed here for us to learn, show our items and try to be more dilegent with the dealings of the sharks who are lurking in this hobby.I have books that perhaps have cost me $Thousands over the years just so I can learn more and more.

Saying that Im afraid that its probably now time that I join the ranks of the past forum members Bob Coleman.Donald Abenheim,John Pic etc, who have given this forum so much of their knowledge and who felt that it was time to let go and move on and keep their collections hidden away for only their eyes and close colectors to see.
I bid you all farewell and happy collecting in the future,,,,,, HOOPER

"For those who seek salvation easily, there is little comfort to be had by the great teachers..."

The quest of original SS insignia is a road frought with pitfalls. It is a continual journey. There are sometimes no quick and easy answers. I don't think the more knowlegable collectors who have freely shared thier knowlege should be put on the spot just for not elaborating on their opinions when asked.

I hope this forum can return to what it once was. But it's loosing valuable members. This fourum can yeild great amounts of good information, I have not seen half as many "thank you's" for information given as requests for the same.

I'm not saying people shouldn't contribute what and when they can, but they shouldn't be criticized for not doing it either. Sometimes I don't have the time to respond as fully as I'd like. (and sometimes I have plenty of time to ramble on...)

Well is it better to say an item is NOT ok than to keep silent? Yes it is... At least you get an opinion....

And as someone stated, its a forum, with members. Ofcourse its hard to know all in the beginning but if you atleast learn to know who is telling what. I use the search option here every time when I need to purchase an item.

Believe me I have been a beginner myself and was really frustrated... I have spend many thousands of USD on fake POS that I thought was real. I nearly gave up. I read and read and read in books and on the forums in particular. I am still far from knowledgeable, but I know some about some special pieces. I too, am not happy all the times with the replies I get, but lately people have told me to explain what I mean. We all go blind with our own obvious knowledge from time to time. If you ask a car dealer if a ford is a ford he will laugh!

I got a bit frustrated with my own father when I gave him my old computer and he didnt know even 2 cents about it. But I took some time to explain. Even after that I got very strange questions and I thought, my goodness!! So we have to understand its really hard to get all from the beginning. A couple of years back I couldnt see the difference between a fake SS Bevo skull and a real. Today I do this within 5 seconds. This knowledge is sometimes hard to understand. Ask a kid in the street, who is interested in cars, which brands the two last cars which passed by had. He (or she) will tell you with accuracy.

Yes we sometimes we do forget to explain, because lack of time and a certain gut feeeling you seem to develop over the years, that cant be explained.

I hope we all improove ourselves, but beginners also be patient, and expect to educate yourself and be happy for all the knowledge that is shared here without any money beeing payed. Its better than reference books in my opinion.

Hooper!!! Dont say good bye to this forum! Youre needed here along with the rest of us third reich Junkies!

Cheers,
Felix

Hello, Some of us SS collectors are still around and view from time to time. IMO what has/is happening to this forum is that many novice collectors need to educate themselves first and to keep QUIET if you are not 100% sure on what you are talking about. I have read so many threads where senseless arguing took place. I really enjoy to help educate the novice collector, but, I think that I can speak for others as well, why should we take the time to download pics of our items when all that some people want to do is criticize and start arguments with other forum members. I believe that is one of the major reasons for the decline in particapation from members ie. Mr.Hritz, Mr. Toncar, etc...
Anyway, the cuff title above is a really bad fake. IMO here are the signs: 1) The shape of the letters is way off ie. the "T","P",and "F" 2) The backside should show signs of two tone coloring of the thread which is missing on the above title, 3) The borders show too much of a tintsley look to the wire.
Also, the "Totenkopf" RZM cuff title was made with six border strands. If you look in Beavers book you will see it on my tunic. It was purchased at an estate sale in Galion,OH. in 1995 along with a white summer tunic also pictured in Beavers book. Just my two cents worth. Grant.

Grant,
I did not try to start any arguing on this post. I just get a little confused with how many actual variations there are, I was told this was a later production piece. Key word "told", I tried to do home work on this piece through the threads of this site. It seems that the books don't show or tell everything. I am new to the SS collecting arena and I personally thought that this is a sloppy piece, but I wanted opinions on it. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I have no one to turn to were I am from. I have most of the books, but still am searching for the Mollo books. I don't mean to waste anyones time.
I am probably not going to anymore local shows and wating my time.
I guess I just have to pay the price and buy good items from Peter at The Collectors Guild and study those pieces.

Hooper, please don't leave.

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I am probably not going to anymore local shows and wating my time.

never a waist doing local shows one can learn and still find things at them just take what on might hear with grain of salt and do research in books old threads worth the work in long run
and listen to your gut feelings they tend to be right

I will keep my opinions to myself in future unless you gentlmen send me a private mail,I will just post images of some of my items or anything else that may be of interest or useful in the future to you guys!,,,,HOOPER

Mr. Davis, I'm sorry if I came off a little h**** or "To the point", but I was just expressing my views on why a lot of people have left the forum. Like I mentioned before, I enjoy helping the novice collector, like yourself. The Collectors Guild is a good source for nice items and Peter is a great guy, but I think that you will find prices there a little high. Best Rgards, Grant.

Grant,
No, I like to the point. Thank you. I think it is sad when everyone gets hard feelings and do not want to contibute to the forum. I am new to the forum, but, what I have seen in past threads is really disappointing that a bunch of people with the same interest can't get along (or can't have there own opinion). I realize that his prices are a little inflated, but I just purchased a M43 skull from him to have a hands on study guide. As Felix was saying I don't think I could "see the difference between a fake SS Bevo skull and a real" one.
Thank you all

To add an adjustment to Grant's description of real TK RZM cufftitles, there are certainly originals of this title w/ 7 wire borders.

Cheers, John

It is amazing to me how childish some of the collectors of TR militaria are. I have never seen a board full of so many crybabies when it comes to legitimate opinions. SS items are interesting to me, so I like to see what people are finding. It is hard for me to see why anyone would really want to start collecting this stuff when there are so many conflicting opinions..I will stick with American Civil War, and maybe pick up a German steel helmet once in awhile..YIKES!

Wormhout:
Who are you and where did you come from? Crybabies what! I hope you are not that ignorant I mean come on most people have studied this stuff for years and there views on the subject are more fact then opinion. And believe me Civil War stuff is a big mine field if not bigger then SS stuff any day. And a couple collectors of that field(Civil War) ended up dead and on 60 minutes not long ago the killer was caught at a show selling the victims items, I bet victim wishes he could just cried . Also your opinion on our forum would get a little more respect if anyone knew who you were. Come on make your self known before you have an opinion(crybabies) about me or any of these good fellas, or stay and collect in the perfect world of civil war militaria. and leave us out of you trouble making tactics.

Once again, a forum member taking something totally out of context. All I am saying is that this stuff cannot be that hard to come to a legitimate conclusion on. Besides, I am not the one who forced all of these experts to leave the forum...Civil War is a lot easier to discern fakes as we are talking 140 years ago versus 60. People nowadays don't look like they did in 1860, and photographs are easy to spot (reenactors vs. real photos). And I won't defend the civil war hobby. I would say 90% of the dealers could care less about the history of the item, just the profits. I am really surprised that you took my post as a personal attack (I wasn't even referencing your post???)...I wasn't talking about just SS...the helmet category is just as bad. Your response is exactly what I am talking about..way too touchy about people's opinions. You are right about stealing though. Lots of CW shows end with stuff being stolen from displays, etc. I believe that a man named Herb Peck had his entire collection stolen from his house (presumably by his neighbor)...Over a million dollars in top-notch photographs were ripped off. But back to your response: Like the one member said "I think it is sad when everyone gets hard feelings and do not want to contibute to the forum."
And who I am doesn't mean a lick as I couldn't tell a real totenkopf cufftitle from a Lance Armstrong Yellow Rubber wristband. (I can see why people leave this board - over and out!)

Actually I was upset last night because of the comment about crybaby and civil war stuff being any better. No hard feelings believe me, but I don't like when people call people name like crybabies and you are not even known to the forum and I can honestly say I don't give a hoot about this civil war era stuff but how can 140 year old stuff be more easily idienfied then 60 year old things there is not one damn person left from the civil war? And what does what the people look like have to do with anything. Regards.

I collect civil war images of soldiers. What I was saying is that it is easy to spot fakes as people from 1860 don't look like people from 2006. There are lots of reenactment photos out there that are sold as original, and bring thousands of dollars. If I put on an SS helmet and took a black and white photo you could probably see what I mean. We are getting off an a tangent so bad that I can hardly remember what the original argument was about????
(and I didn't say CW stuff was better, just easier for me to discern fakes from originals.) SHEESH!

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We are getting off an a tangent so bad that I can hardly remember what the original argument was about????

Me either . Hehe