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#96038 11/19/2008 07:05 PM
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"From an old motel buy, here is a near mint choice Waffen SS NCO Visor forsale Price is $6995.00 plus shipping. No PayPal stateside and arrangements on payment from overseas.
Ron Weinand, relic@warrelic.com 217-223-2322"

I must say I am very concerned at the way this thread has been played. Patrick seems to have put very convincing arguments on this piece that it should be discused. Others seem to flock round and muddle the position. As a person who would like to learn about such pieces, probably go into this sphere of collecting, what is the considered out come? As a fellow chemist, I wonder were Ron is coming from? We were taught to be very thorough in our evaluations. Just to be more muddeled, one has to aske the question, is this real?

CAN ANY ONE HELP ME?

#96039 11/19/2008 10:57 PM
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Mr. Ailsby,

You seem to want to generate a negative discussion but without actually saying anything yourself or stating any facts, much as Patrice has done in the original thread.

I am not going to put up with insinuations of this type. Our code of conduct reads "Be friendly, polite, positive, and helpful. If you think someone’s artifact is not correct or your opinion differs from theirs, be sure to explain why"

If you have doubts on authenticity, then state them and exactly why you hold that opinion. If not, fold your tent.

Dave

#96040 11/19/2008 11:30 PM
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Mr. Illsby, if I didn't think it was good, I wouldn't have listed it. I have more than enough good items to list, believe me.
Also, I believe the term stateside is Pharmacist.
Chemist are those who test for contaminates in the US, not dispense tested medications.
JMO,
Ron Weinand


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#96041 11/20/2008 12:08 AM
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I find Mr. Ailsby's comments reasonable and polite. He notes he is thinking about collecting headgear, therefore, he apparently wants to learn. I can understand and appreciate why he is a bit mystified over comments that have been made, right or wrong. I find the replies to Mr. Ailsby a bit curt and more than a bit offensive, unnecessarily so. I could understand why he might now seek another hobby.

#96042 11/20/2008 12:14 AM
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Dave, seriously, I don't see any anything in Mr Ailsby's post that suggests he wants to generate a negative discussion. It would appear that he is in the same situation as me - not knowing much about these but wanting to learn. Why can't this thread be used as an opportunity to point out the areas which may hold some concern for some people, and have those areas evaluated and explained by those, perhaps with more knowledge of the item? All the slanging does nothing except cause grief where it is not needed. The point of difference between a pharmacist and a chemist is irrelevant and reads like Ron is 'having a go'.

Regards
Russ

#96043 11/20/2008 12:43 AM
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Jeeeeeeeeeeeez, Dave, you're getting pretty touchy here ! I think you should also read the "Code of Conduct". Roll Eyes

#96044 11/20/2008 01:32 AM
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Greetings Mr. Ailsby-

Edited for insults. DD, check your email

Dave

#96045 11/20/2008 02:14 AM
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Dave asked that I discuss this topic here rather than in the "Community" section. Here is what I posted there:
There is a fairly intense discussion going on in the "For Sale" section. Having let my paid membership lapse for a number of reasons, I'd like to add my support for Pat. I think the question he asked was fair and the email he sent to Dave was private. Dave decided to put it on the site and I think that was chikens**t on Dave's part. It lends credence to some of the thinking around here that there are members of GDC and then

#96046 11/20/2008 02:50 AM
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Why don't we get down to the hat?

Here's the thread from WAF which offers some concerns. I've copied these directly into this thread. The concerns go un-answered by Ron.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319537

So let's have the concerns answered here by knowledgable collectors so we can learn something.

"My new SS NCO Visor: Comments please as I am no hat expert!" (Ron)


"I'm not to fond of the eagle...." (Anders S)

"Since the cap appears to be mint, why is the lining behind the insignias so shredded? Notice the long piece of black thread that holds it in place. Was it really sewn like that originally? How about more pics of the sweatband exterior, the crown of the lining, and the visor underside, etc? I also noticed that the white piping is of very uneven thickness. Does the black finish on the visor have any crazing like you normally see? I'm not trying to pick apart the cap, and it may just be totally mint, but closeups make it look like it was made yesterday." (sgstandard)

"The lining pleats look less that desirable too me. Not something I want to see on a visor with a mint exterior with perfect form and good rear pleating. The pasteboard looks very, odd to me. The sweatband also looks replaced. I can see areas of over stitching and shadowing. It is far from a one looker in my opinion. It certainly needs a hands on." (NTZ)

"As others have indicated, the skull looks like it could be a good Overhoff, but the eagle is an obvious fake. I will leave discussion regarding the originality of the cap, itself, to those more expert than I. However, I will, at least, say that the skull does not appear to be original to the cap." (bwanek1)

"without seeing the lining, it looks good. nice M1/24 tk" (SSgentleman)

Here's Bob Colemans comment from the For Sale thread.

"THERE ARE CONSTRUCTION ASPECTS TO THIS CAP THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN PROPERLY REPLICATED IN MODERN TIMES. THE LINING IS TYPICAL TO THAT FOUND ALSO IN MID TO LATE WAR OFFICER CAPS OBTAINED THROUGH THE OFFICIAL SS SUPPLY CHAIN. IT IS AMAZING HOW SOMETIMES, THE NEW ON LINE GURUS FAIL TO RECOGNIZE SOME OF THE MOST BASIC TRAITS THAT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE WORK OF PERIOD MASTER HAT MAKERS AND THE JUNK PRODUCED IN THE LAST TWENTY YEARS. I GUESS THE OLD GUARD LIKE RON AND MYSELF HAVE LEARNED NOTHING OVER THE 100+ YEARS COMBINED WE HAVE IN COLLECTING. SO WE OLD GUYS MUST NOW DEFER TO THOSE WHO HAVE NOT HANDLED 1/100TH THE MATERIAL WE HAVE OVER THE YEARS. THE REAL BECOMES FAKE AND THE FAKE BECOMES REAL."

Regards
Russ

#96047 11/20/2008 02:50 AM
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Not knowing a lot about this type of headgear I was hoping the discussion would open up a little. Instead I continually read "you said...he said"......just a bunch of bickering back and forth like a bunch of old wash women! Same old crap from grown men! This is just another reason I find less and less interest in this hobby and don't post much in this forum anymore.
Keep an eye on the "other forum" as I'm slowly selling off my collection. You can read my posts in the Mustang forum where you'll find much more friendly civilized discussions!

#96048 11/20/2008 03:18 AM
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My knowledge of headgear is very limited and I know it. I would point out that the master hatmakers were around quite a while after the war ended. Because the hat of discussion has at least some original appearing aspects and because the hat is not blatantly of recent manufacture is not necessarily convincing information to indicate it was made during the Third Reich period, not to me, at least. I don't know if it's authentic or not, but I think anyone laying out the kind of money asked should be 100% certain it is authentic. If they don't know that from personal knowledge and experience, they should seek learned information elsewhere, including here. If practically all, if not all, posts here are subject to discussion and criticism, where's the beef?

#96049 11/20/2008 03:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher J Ailsby:

I must say I am very concerned at the way this thread has been played. Patrick seems to have put very convincing arguments on this piece that it should be discused. Others seem to flock round and muddle the position. As a person who would like to learn about such pieces, probably go into this sphere of collecting, what is the considered out come? As a fellow chemist, I wonder were Ron is coming from? We were taught to be very thorough in our evaluations. Just to be more muddeled, one has to aske the question, is this real?

CAN ANY ONE HELP ME?


A polite sincere question. By a veteran collector and author of note. One who has helped me and many others regading 3rd reich medals and orders and had a world class collection.
The only insinuations would be applied if the thread had run it's course and there actually wassome. Saying it doesn't make it so.

The late Waffen-SS NCO Visor.
I'm no hat guy but since there are experts here and this item is being watched by members from other forums who are knowledgeable with membership here I encourange them to enlighten Christopher, myself and all others and dispell facts from fiction on this item.

My question is regarding the lining. Is that the standard color used in the liners or was that a particular maker. The light yellow color. If so, what maker/makers would have been known for that particular color?
Also I noticed that it did not have the "diamond". Was the diamond just not applied to some late NCO visors? And if it was a maker late war short cut, about what time period would you say this first started?
Do you recall any of the veteran provenance on this visor Ron?

Regards,
-serge-

#96050 11/20/2008 04:53 AM
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IF YOU READ MY POST ON THIS CAP, IT DEALS WITH THE LINING. THE OFFICER'S CAP I HAVE IN MY COLLECTION IS ALSO WITHOUT A SWEAT DIAMOND. IT IS PART OF A GROUPING OF MATERIAL PRIVATELY PURCHASED FROM THE FAMILY OF AN AUSTRIAN SS OFFICER IN TOTENKOPF. THE GROUPING INCLUDED A SECOND IDENTICAL VISOR CAP THAT STILL RETAINED IT'S PRICE TAG, A TUNIC, BREECHES, MANTEL, BELT AND BOOTS. ONE CAP AND THE MANTEL WERE SOLD OFF AND TODAY RESIDE IN MY COLLECTION. THE BALANCE OF MATERIAL STILL RESIDES IN THE SAME COLLECTION IT HS BEEN IN SINCE FOUND IN THE 1980'S. STONEMINT LIKES THIS CAP AND SO DO I. WE BOTH BELIEVE IT IS A LATER WAR PEKURO DUE TO THE SHAPE.
PICTURES ARE NO SUBSTITUTE FOR IN HANDS STUDY. HOWEVER, I DO NOT SEE THE RED FLAGS THAT A FEW AT WA HAVE HAD CONCERNS OVER.
I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS BEEN MUCH OVER REACTION ON PAT'S INITIAL AND WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE REASONBLE REQUEST. LET'S DISCUSS THE ITEM AND NOT EACH OTHER. ISN'T THAT WHAT ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT?
BOB


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#96051 11/20/2008 05:36 AM
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Yes, I agree.
There has been an over reaction on Pat's request and I suggest also on Christophers request.
Thank you Bob for your quick reply. So the coloring is OK and the sweat diamond is known and seen on some late war private purchase SS hat makers.
Would it be fair to call this item a non-textbook? or perhaps just a variation? OR?
And if it's not too much trouble, would it be possible to see the interior of your hat for comparison? I think that would help a lot.

Regards,
-serge-

#96052 11/20/2008 06:50 AM
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Just making a 1st post and read this with great enthusiasm......

If it was purchased at a motel buy then why would it need to be shown to experts for their opinion.Is it common for veterans to have questionable items?

J

#96053 11/20/2008 07:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by josepf:
Just making a 1st post and read this with great enthusiasm......

If it was purchased at a motel buy then why would it need to be shown to experts for their opinion.Is it common for veterans to have questionable items?

J


There are several reasons vets sometimes have fakes. Among them are:

    some vets gave away or lost their souvenirs and replaced them with items they picked up post-war

    some vets bought items post-war, which they simply wished they had brought back as souvenirs

    some vets bought items post-war to back up "war stories" which are not accurate

    some vets...aren't vets at all!

#96054 11/20/2008 09:23 AM
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HOW QUICK THE TWO MEMBERS WERE TO ATTACK THIS FELLOW COLLECTOR AND AS MENTIONED HIS BOOK "COMBAT MEDALS OF THE THIRD REICH"IS AS FINE A BOOK AS THEY COULD WRITE AND I THINK WE COULD TREAT AN ENGLISH COLLECTOR AND AUTHOR GUY WITH MORE RESPECT THAN THAT.HE ASKED QUESTIONS WE ALL WOULD ASK,WHATS WRONG WITH THAT,WHY THE HOSTIITY RON WEINAND AND TO BAD HE MADE YOU UPSET!!FORGIVE US MR.AILSBY,WE SEEM TO HAVE BAD MANNERS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD AND WE ARE NOT ALL LIKE THE TWO ILL MANNERED PERSONS.CARL

#96055 11/20/2008 11:19 AM
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Firstly I would like to thank those who said kind words. Secondly, I would like to point out, as I initally said I was enquiring about the originallity of the cap, because doubts had been expressed. I have 3 caps, and am not sure about them. Items that I find interesting and an ajunct to my main interest.Like wise cloth is a total bewilderment to me. I thought the purpouse of this or other forums was to enlighten. I started the thread away from the sales, so that it would not be seen as a contensious enquiry. I would like to point out to Dave that his obsevations were posibly a little corrosive. So the question is begged, is the cap original, or not? What are the pionters simpletons like myself, looking for?

#96056 11/20/2008 11:58 AM
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I think the fact that the visor was bought into question on WAF would be enough for most members to want to see it discussed on here, right or wrong!. The trouble being most of the members with the skill to appraise such a piece have left for pastures new, because of exactly this type of thread.
I still rate this forum as the best on the net but the way some of its members are treated makes me wonder how long that will continue.

#96057 11/20/2008 03:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
Yes, I agree.
There has been an over reaction on Pat's request and I suggest also on Christophers request.
Thank you Bob for your quick reply. So the coloring is OK and the sweat diamond is known and seen on some late war private purchase SS hat makers.
Would it be fair to call this item a non-textbook? or perhaps just a variation? OR?
And if it's not too much trouble, would it be possible to see the interior of your hat for comparison? I think that would help a lot.

Regards,
-serge-


SERGE-
THE WORD "TEXTBOOK" IS SOMETHING OVER USED IN COLLECTING. IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO FIND VISOR CAPS WITHOUT A SWEAT DIAMOND IN THE MID TO LATE WAR PERIOD. THE MAJORITY OF SS MATERIAL WAS SOURCED THROUGH THE SS SUPPLY STORES. PRIVATE PURCHASE WOULD BE THE EXCEPTION INSTEAD OF THE NORM. I HAVE SEEN FEWER GRAY OR BLACK SS VISOR CAPS WITH PRIVATE TAILORING OR HAT MAKER'S LOGOS IN THE TOP. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT THEY DO NOT EXIST BUT ARE ENCOUNTERED LESS THAN THE NORMAL HATS FOUND THROUGH SS SUPPLY. TO ME, TEXTBOOK IN ANY CAP IS THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS PUT TOGETHER. I WOULD SUGGEST STUDYING THE WAY PIPING IS INSTALLED IN BOTH GENUINE AND KNOWN FRAUDULENT EXAMPLES IN VISOR CAPS. IN THAT STUDY, ALL WILL BE ANSWERED.
BOB


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#96058 11/20/2008 03:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwanek1:
quote:
Originally posted by josepf:
Just making a 1st post and read this with great enthusiasm......

If it was purchased at a motel buy then why would it need to be shown to experts for their opinion.Is it common for veterans to have questionable items?

J


There are several reasons vets sometimes have fakes. Among them are:

    some vets gave away or lost their souvenirs and replaced them with items they picked up post-war

    some vets bought items post-war, which they simply wished they had brought back as souvenirs

    some vets bought items post-war to back up "war stories" which are not accurate

    some vets...aren't vets at all!


I AGREE TO AN EXTENT. HOWEVER, I DID MOTEL BUYS FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND ALSO BOUGHT FROM A LOT OF VETS THROUGH LOCAL ADVERTISING STARTING IN THE EARLY 60'S. I CAN ONLY SAY THAT DURING THOSE FOURTY PLUS YEARS, I ONLY ENCOUNTERED A HANDFUL OF POLLUTED MATERIAL AMONG THE SOUVENIRS BROUGHT BACK BY FORMER SERVICEMEN.
BOB


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#96059 11/20/2008 04:16 PM
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A very interesting thread and more to the purpose than the previous. Perhaps it will turn out to be most beneficial to all concerned...as long as we "gentlemen" can keep it civil. cheers and regards, Ryan

#96060 11/20/2008 06:17 PM
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Perhaps someone with Premium status could put in a link to this thread as there is still discussion going on in the For Sale thread - members may not be aware that this thread is underway?

Regards
Russ

#96061 11/20/2008 08:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ruski:
.....The point of difference between a pharmacist and a chemist is irrelevant and reads like Ron is 'having a go'.
Regards
Russ


There IS no difference between a chemist and a pharmacist in Mr. Ailsby's post.
The "correction" made was petty and demeaning, and I was honestly surprised that Mr. Weiland chose to play border semantics, considering that this is supposed to be an international forum, rather than an American one.
There was nothing in Mr. Ailsby's post that showed anything but curiosity and courtesy.

Perhaps the pressure of a discussion that has degenerated into all-around disrespect and meritless bantering is simply taking it's toll on the participants.....
I see that that the topic returned to concerning itself with the visor in question.....Bravo.

#96062 11/20/2008 08:36 PM
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Hi All,
I'm on my way out of town but before I leave I just got an email that stated the there is opinion from knowledgeable scources on another forum that the eagle on this visor is perhaps a repro.

I would normally check into this myself but my lack of time and experience in visors I will humbly leave to my more experienced colleagues for their views and observations regarding the eagle and totenkopf insignia.

Regards,
-serge-

#96063 11/20/2008 09:05 PM
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Hi just read the WAF post...so please let me ask, Ron and Bob can you tell whether the eagle is good or bad? It has been stated, as opposed to suggested on the WAF that the eagle is an outright fake. We all know authorities on this very forum (if they are still members) that are able to identify a reproduction eagle and skull.I am not amongst them and to me the hat appears fine(said without a hands on inspection)Fake insignia does not automatically mean fake cap. Reproduction SS insignia is far easier to recognize than a made up cap...what is the consensus regarding this insignia, and not to cast dispersions or "stir the pot" but reproductions are supposed to be listed as per this forum's rules pertaining to the classifieds. Also does not 80+ years of collective experience and hotel buys allow someone to discern between an authentic,period adler and a reproduction? These are important questions that now deserve answers. regards, Ryan

#96064 11/20/2008 09:07 PM
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P.S. am important question as an authentic replacement eagle will cost between $300 to $600 and it needs to be near mint. Also you then will have a mis matched set of insignia and replaced insignia as well.If the skull is noot good a decent replacement set of full insignia will be closer to $1000.00++

#96065 11/20/2008 11:07 PM
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I was going to suggest Tony Scanlon or Grant Bias but I see that some other notable experts on this forum have pronounced the eagle to be an obvious fake as well. Again was this obviously fake insignia not apparent to those with so many years of "experience" and should not the For Sale ad reflect this? I believe that Forum rules do state that all items that are reproduction must be listed appropriately.I could say so much more but again I am just angry!!!

#96066 11/21/2008 03:41 AM
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I stated this on the other forum--it is my belief, based on pics, that the hat is good (visors are my specialty--not insignia, so I leave that to the SS insginia experts.) Ron sent me pics before it was listed on either forum, and I told him then I thought it was good, but with the standard caveat that it needs a hands-on (which I believe will just confirm my initial thoughts.)I also believe I know the maker, even if unlabeled, based on construction techniques. I have seen many more pics than the ones posted, and I know Ron will be happy to provide them to anyone who asks (and btw, I have never met or spoken to Ron, just corresponded by email a few times.)

I was asked why I won't buy the cap, and that is because my focus is Officer's visors, primarily Political/Civil. As I stated on the other forum, I will be happy to inspect the hat (for free) for anyone who buys it. I'm sure any other visor specialist would be willing to do the same.

I am at a loss to explain all this paranoia--no one has yet to point out a thing wrong with it (other than the eagle), and I have seen plenty of stripped SS visors over the years, and ones with replaced insignia (which I see more often than not.)

Just my .02 cents.

#96067 11/21/2008 04:57 AM
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It is great to get some opinion on the cap itself and the insignia, so those of us who are in-experienced with this type of headwear can learn something amongst the positive and negative thoughts that have been posted.

To answer your question, the paranoia has clearly been generated by Dave who seems to have a problem with Pat. Take a re-read of the 'For Sale' thread if you're so inclined and it will become very clear. Dave is the one who should 'fold his tent'.

Regards
Russ

#96068 11/21/2008 05:31 AM
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My 2 cents worth is everyone missing the point here....I also feel that the cap is good, at least based on the pics provided and I have stated such...the eagle might be bad, consensus of opinion yet it was not divulged, second the cap was solicited on another forum openly for opinions and received mostly negative (don't know why or care) then the hat was next found on this forum, not for discussion but for sale and nothing mentioned about the comments or opinions or repro eagle just "at a reduced price" Why is it so difficult to see that this might cause controversy and the only person at fault, sorry to say is the person who offerred it and also who solicited for opinions. Why can't people just say I messed up sorry fellas. NO BIG DEAL Have our egos become so big?

#96069 11/21/2008 06:20 AM
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I offered the hat forsale on the forum WHERE I HAVE THE BEST SALES AND WANTED TO LIST IT. If I had wanted to sell it on WA.com, I would have listed it there, but sales on that forum are NOT AS GOOD AS SALES ON GD.COM. I have listed items on both forums and this is what I have found to be the facts.
Next, Stonemint is well respected on the forum and, after I received his blessing, I felt that the hat was correct HAVING SEEN HIS OPINION RESPECTED IN OTHER INSTANCES.
Next, concerning price: Evidently you all think that the price has to be set at the top of the last nickel on every item. I don't. If someone was going to get a break in your opinion, then so be it. I marked it at the price where I thought the sale was most likely to occur, especially in these times of distress.
If this price is such a buy, someone can buy it and make the difference by reselling it themselves. More power to them if they have a hat client.
Anyway, its my property and I will price it where it needs to be in my opinion. I don't have much in the hat, so its mostly all profit for me to start with in this case.
Lastly, no one has shown me any pictures, side by side comparisons, known fake comparisons with this hat or insignias that substantiate stated opinions or comments.
Therefore, it is evident to me that hats are much more of a minefield than daggers or medals, so opinions are just that: opinions.
Patrice DID finally offer to buy the hat, but wanted a six month evaluation period. For that amount of time I will either take it to the SOS or give it to an auction house, either way a much easier method of sale without all the drama.


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#96070 11/21/2008 01:20 PM
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Ron,,,why not list it with the new auction service,Empire Auctions,,,there you may well indeed find a buyer for it,,Robert

#96071 11/21/2008 01:46 PM
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Drama??? I thought that it was merely a guarantee of authenticity? You refer to it as a "six month examination period?" Most reputable big name dealers, Max certified or not will offer an extensive guarantee or will warranty an item for their lifetime in regards to authenticity. I personally do not feel that six months is too long for a $7000 hat. Once more no mention of the "possibly reproduction eagle" I guess that we will all assume that no one has commented on the eagle who has held or seen the hat in person. I would want to determine for my own satisfaction whether the eagle is good or bad before leaving it on my cap....It wouldn't even hurt to mention that the skull is good but the eagle is a copy replacement. Not saying anything or stating "I haven't been told conclusively one way or another" just leaves one with a bad tatse in one's mouth. Considering the solicited controversy around this cap I think Pat's offer/request was reasonnable but alas it is not my hat...cheers

#96072 11/21/2008 05:25 PM
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Could I possibly return to the original discription, again dear Ron, we can have different views on the word Chemist, but it dose neeen the presion of perscription reading, you describe as, ""From an old motel buy, here is a near mint choice Waffen SS NCO Visor forsale Price is $6995.00 plus shipping. No PayPal stateside and arrangements on payment from overseas.
Ron Weinand, relic@warrelic.com 217-223-2322"". Using your description, "From an old motel buy," here is were I become confsed. Again for clarity and to show no negativity, how has the eagle come into disrapte. Has it been replaced, if so when and by who. The vet? But Vet buys are scacrastant. If the eagle is fake, then if the cap is original, then it has been manipulated at some time. Again back to my very first question, how do we know what to look for? A forum such as this should be here to enlighten soles such as I who know bog all about these things.

So I ask the assembled folk, what is the considered possition on the cap?

#96073 11/21/2008 07:36 PM
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Christopher, the original description was:

"My new SS NCO Visor: Comments please as I am no hat expert!" (WAF)

The For Sale description is:

"From an old motel buy, ..." (GDC)

Regards
Russ

#96074 11/21/2008 08:17 PM
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If one goes back to an earlier WAF comment, perhaps this cap having a fake eagle explains the damage to the lining behind the insignia, whereas the rest looks well intact.

"Since the cap appears to be mint, why is the lining behind the insignias so shredded? ..." (sgstandard)

Being in-experienced with this type of headwear, I would assume this is one very good indicator that suggests closer scrutiny of the insignia should be undertaken?

Also, if the eagle is a fake, and it is known as a "fake 360", does anyone know when these first started to appear?

Perhaps Ron could carefully remove the eagle and show the reverse, which will either confirm or eliminate the eagle as being a fake.

Regards
Russ

#96075 11/21/2008 09:48 PM
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You are correct removed or altered insignia would explain the damage to the lining. Easier to replace the eagle and remove it then the deathshead.Good cap with what appears to be a good original skull that also appears original to the cap offerred at a good price. This is what I am certain anyone examining this cap will determine. Shame that it had to come to this.....one should divulge everything known about an item that is impactual upon a potential sale. cheers

#96076 11/22/2008 01:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sellick8302@rogers.com:
Drama??? I thought that it was merely a guarantee of authenticity? You refer to it as a "six month examination period?" Most reputable big name dealers, Max certified or not will offer an extensive guarantee or will warranty an item for their lifetime in regards to authenticity.


This is the key thought in the entire controversy - if such a guarantee did exist, do you think anyone serious enough about dropping $7G would even second-guess authenticity of the aforementioned cap? This is the real "Catch-22" in collecting - it all comes down to a matter of opinion in the end. Who really believes that a "Lifetime Guarantee" really does mean anything when you purchase something?

My guess would be that if Pat really did have faith in such a guarantee that Ron might have offered, he would have never had reason to ask Hohaus to bring about question of the cap in the first place . . . something to chew on for all of us about "Lifetime Guarantees" - this is a mess that really needs complete eradication before collecting militaria can ever gain it's due respect in my opinion . . .

Someone should just buy this cap, pass it around for all of the "opinions" that we all place so much faith in, and see where the chips fall . . . testing reputations could be a good thing when it comes to a "Lifetime Guarantee" for all collectors . . .

Brad

P.S. I would never discount this cap until it is personally inspected - although it has potential to not be what is represented as, it still could very well be - NOBODY can absolutely say that it is completely inaccurate until such examination is completed. Give Ron and the cap a chance, and see what happens - we all deserve this courtesy to be passed onto each other until rightfully justified otherwise . . . Frown


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have . . . .
#96077 11/22/2008 02:30 AM
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THE ANSWER TO ALL QUESTIONS ON THIS HAT CAN BE SEEN IN THE INSTALLATION OF THE PIPING.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
Gold Badge #263
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