#1031
02/15/2009 09:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
Dear experts. I need your advice! It is an original dagger or Fake? Please pay your attention to a �brandmark of manufacturer� and �motto�. Thanks.
3.jpg (88.99 KB, 745 downloads)
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#1032
02/15/2009 10:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
photo
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#1033
02/15/2009 10:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
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#1034
02/15/2009 10:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
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#1035
02/15/2009 10:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
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1.jpg (76.37 KB, 709 downloads)
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#1036
02/15/2009 10:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
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#1037
02/15/2009 10:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
rw
5.jpg (77.56 KB, 669 downloads)
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#1038
02/15/2009 10:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
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#1041
02/16/2009 01:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30
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OP
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 30 |
Many thanks, nats! And what about your opinion?
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#1042
02/16/2009 03:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,054 |
Looks good to me, from what I can see. The scabbard was repainted at some point.....
John Merling [email protected]MAX Life member OVMS Life member(Ohio Valley Military Society SOS) OGCA Life member(Ohio Gun Collectors Assoc) NRA Life member
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#1043
02/16/2009 09:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Hi guys , it looks good to me as well but as I am selling it , it would I guess . The guy has posted all these pics without even asking me if I minded. As it happens , I dont , but I really dislike things being taken for granted. For the benefit of the original poster I would not sell it to him now anyway .The paint on the scabbard is one of those tough calls and I agree , better to err on the side of a repaint , but it has been checked by a well known expert who falls on the side of original , in keeping with the overall condition of the dagger.I will follow this thread with interest.
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#1044
02/16/2009 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 974 |
A good one. Everything is correct, even the chipping of the wood is very typical for 1052's. Logo is one of the known variation (mine has RZM before the numbers, but exactly the same lettering).
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#1045
02/16/2009 02:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99 |
Sergei/Arkan,
Please read the Code of Conduct - the part about putting up a dealers' pictures. You must say where you got the pictures if you post them on GDC from a dealer site.
Dave Admin
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#1046
02/16/2009 02:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Thanks Admin , think I may have got a little worked up but it does irritate
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#1047
02/16/2009 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245 |
quote: Originally posted by yorkshireman: Thanks Admin , think I may have got a little worked up but it does irritate
hello I understand your statements here , but the guy only ask this questions : Dear experts. I need your advice! It is an original dagger or Fake? Please pay your attention to a �brandmark of manufacturer� and �motto�. Thanks. ----------- I have may done the same instead of loose many money if im not was sure of the origin. ? Thats my opinions. A forum is for discuss daggers and other items. He ask for advice only. The pics are another history LH
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#1048
02/16/2009 04:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
LH, There are a few red flags on this dagger! (SEE PHOTO)The Gap should not be there, the blade has had some pretty serious re-buffing, the maker mark and motto have been re-touched, the Scabbard has been re-painted, and, of course, there are a lot of pressure chips where the nut has been too tight! BUT, I believe this is an Original Item! Those are more Condition issues than Originality issues. It is NOT Worth anywhere near top dollar. Maybe $2000 to $2500. IMHO Ray, RG88
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#1049
02/16/2009 04:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Re the gap , are you saying you have not seen shrinkage gaps on old grips ? I cannot believe that comment but every one is entitled to an opinion just dont state it as a fact please , I do not see that as a red flag subject in any way especially with what we know of the grip wood used by this maker and as regards rebuffing I have never seen a rebuffed blade with such original cross graining but, like you this is only my opinion and I defend your right to state yours , also ref the guy only asked etc. I have absolutely no objection to someone getting opinions on my items but they should have the common courtesy to ask me first if they are using my pictures.
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#1050
02/16/2009 04:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Oh and its only priced at �1895 so actually you are pretty close
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#1051
02/16/2009 04:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,037 Likes: 4
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,037 Likes: 4 |
Originally posted by Railgun88: LH,
There are a few red flags on this dagger! (SEE PHOTO)The Gap should not be there, the blade has had some pretty serious re-buffing, the maker mark and motto have been re-touched, the Scabbard has been re-painted, and, of course, there are a lot of pressure chips where the nut has been too tight!
Ray, RG88
Grip shrinkage occurs on many, many SS and SA daggers. The blade does not appear to have been buffed at all. It has nice original crossgrain. I see no photo of the motto here but the RZM mark and code do not appear to be retouched. Lighting will cause the burnished parts to appear very dark. As far as the scabbard goes, it's impossible to tell if it's a post war repaint in the photos but it looks right to me.
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#1052
02/16/2009 05:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Hi Skyline , many thanks for those sensible observations , here is the motto to help everyone , good thread this !!
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#1053
02/16/2009 05:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Hello, quote: as regards rebuffing I have never seen a rebuffed blade with such original cross graining"
No Problem on that, but, I do restorations and replacing the grain is not that much of a deal, expensive and time consuming, but really not too big an issue. [QUOTE] "ref the guy only asked etc. I have absolutely no objection to someone getting opinions on my items but they should have the common courtesy to ask me first if they are using my pictures."[/QUOTE). I agree with this statement, as it also happened to me just recently in this Forum! BUT Please refresh! I have no idea what / Who you are talking about, Me? The Person Originally asking for Opinions?, Someone totally unrelated to this discussion?... did I miss something? On the gap, I am indeed used to seeing occasional gaps caused by shrinkage of the wood, but they are usually more uniform and visible on BOTH the top and bottom fittings when present. In this case, I am not sure if it is one of the many pressure cracks, Shrinkage, or a problem extant when the dagger was assembled. It could have been caused by any number of things, even the photo lighting, to some degree. But I did grant this the benefit of the doubt and stated that I would not allow that to hurt the deal on it's own. A "Hands On" examination would answer that question instantly! I will not comment on your price, my comment was purely mine in that regard. At any rate, the dagger DOES appear to be Original to me! My comments were simply to answer the inquiry as best I could and not intended to influence anything. Best Regards, RG88
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#1054
02/16/2009 05:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Yorkshireman, I was writing my reply during the time which Skyline posted his comment and did not see it until I had already posted mine. My comments were directed to Arkan and were simply an attempt to answer his Original question. They are nothing more than my OPINIONS, and I stand by them! Skyline, Sir, I wonder why you would choose to ignore answering the question by Arkan until the opportunity presented itself to allow you to create some Tense Feelings Regarding an Opinion. If you have such a passionate and concrete opinion on the item, and I acknowledge that you do have the expertise and experience, why did you choose not to give him the courtesy of an answer until you had someone to try to rebut? I have not been as intensively active in this hobby as you have, due to the fact that you are Primarily a Dealer in these artifacts. But, at 30+ Years, I would say our involvement is about equal. ALL my statements are Just my Opinions, and not intended to confront or antagonize. Just wondering. I would appreciate an answer to the above musings, but it is certainly not demanded. I am most likely finished in my comments on this matter and my opinions can be seen and either accepted or discarded. I directed them to ARKAN and I hope they reached their intended recipient. For whatever they are worth.
My Very Best,
RG88
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#1055
02/16/2009 06:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,321
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,321 |
I agree with Skyline, The blade is unbuffed and the grip gap is just shrinking. The scabbard does look to have been repainted sometime after it was made, i would expect to see at least some crazing of the paint. With that said it is a RZM piece so could be original but i doubt it. Either way it doesn't detract from it's value much at all. Definately worth more than $2000.00 more like $2400.00-$2500.00 but with the economy who's to say for sure IMO.
Eric Wien
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#1056
02/16/2009 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,037 Likes: 4
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,037 Likes: 4 |
RG88... my comments were not intended to flame you. If they had been you would most certainly know it. They are my opinions and differ from yours. Also, I am not "Primarily a Dealer". I can't imagine where that came from...
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#1057
02/16/2009 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
I am an American resident in UK. I am a Collector and do the Shows AND watch "the goings on" and there are some believe me..... For the UK market in this apparent condition (pics) and RZM at the Sterling price it is way overpriced.Except from certain "Dealers" Seiler
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#1058
02/16/2009 07:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 112 |
Hi Seiler, thanks for your input , the general opinion seems to be around $2500 , mine is only $180 over this so not really ' way overpriced '. especially with the pound at such a low ebb I believe this is ' fairly priced ' nice condition SS dagger.
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#1059
02/16/2009 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
With respect,"to each his own,mon ami"I personally would not buy it at that price. Bon chance!!! Seiler (yank in uk)
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#1060
02/16/2009 08:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,245 |
Wow many replys so fast I have not comment this dagger. Only comments the first posting. LH
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#1061
02/16/2009 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
I would not have it in my collection. -JMO-
Regards, -serge-
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#1062
02/16/2009 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Hi Skyline,
Sorry if I threw you in the "dealer" Catagory too quickly. I think I may have confused you with another guy with the Moniker of "Lakeside Drive" or something similar. Yes?
RG88
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#1063
02/16/2009 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
quote: Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner): I would not have it in my collection. -JMO-
Regards, -serge-
Come to think of it again... if the price was "right" I'd toss it in. -serge-
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#1064
02/16/2009 11:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,097 Likes: 99 |
I am with Skyline, etc. I do not see anything unexpected, especially as concerns "upgrades" to the blade. The scabbard might have been repainted.
Dave
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#1065
02/17/2009 08:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
My comments relate specifically to the High prices demanded by run of the mill SS daggers in UK and the ever increasing number of Fakes. Seiler
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