UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum SS Dagger: Fake or original?

Dear experts. I need your advice! It is an original dagger or Fake? Please pay your attention to a �brandmark of manufacturer� and �motto�. Thanks.

photo

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Excuse, I cannot place other photos. It is possible to look here
http://sammler.ru/index.php?s=...1693&showtopic=51193

Hi Arkan78,check out this thread,it might help you,nats
http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...150041265#2150041265

Many thanks, nats! And what about your opinion?

Looks good to me, from what I can see. The scabbard was repainted at some point.....

Hi guys , it looks good to me as well but as I am selling it , it would I guess . The guy has posted all these pics without even asking me if I minded. As it happens , I dont , but I really dislike things being taken for granted. For the benefit of the original poster I would not sell it to him now anyway .The paint on the scabbard is one of those tough calls and I agree , better to err on the side of a repaint , but it has been checked by a well known expert who falls on the side of original , in keeping with the overall condition of the dagger.I will follow this thread with interest.

A good one. Everything is correct, even the chipping of the wood is very typical for 1052's.
Logo is one of the known variation (mine has RZM before the numbers, but exactly the same lettering).

Sergei/Arkan,

Please read the Code of Conduct - the part about putting up a dealers' pictures. You must say where you got the pictures if you post them on GDC from a dealer site.

Dave
Admin

Thanks Admin , think I may have got a little worked up but it does irritate

quote:

Originally posted by yorkshireman:
Thanks Admin , think I may have got a little worked up but it does irritate

hello

I understand your statements here , but the guy only ask this questions :
Dear experts. I need your advice! It is an original dagger or Fake? Please pay your attention to a �brandmark of manufacturer� and �motto�. Thanks.
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I have may done the same instead of loose many money if im not was sure of the origin. ?


Thats my opinions.
A forum is for discuss daggers and other items.
He ask for advice only. The pics are another history

LH

LH,

There are a few red flags on this dagger! (SEE PHOTO)The Gap should not be there, the blade has had some pretty serious re-buffing, the maker mark and motto have been re-touched, the Scabbard has been re-painted, and, of course, there are a lot of pressure chips where the nut has been too tight! BUT, I believe this is an Original Item! Those are more Condition issues than Originality issues. It is NOT Worth anywhere near top dollar. Maybe $2000 to $2500. IMHO

Ray, RG88

Re the gap , are you saying you have not seen shrinkage gaps on old grips ? I cannot believe that comment but every one is entitled to an opinion just dont state it as a fact please , I do not see that as a red flag subject in any way especially with what we know of the grip wood used by this maker and as regards rebuffing I have never seen a rebuffed blade with such original cross graining but, like you this is only my opinion and I defend your right to state yours , also ref the guy only asked etc. I have absolutely no objection to someone getting opinions on my items but they should have the common courtesy to ask me first if they are using my pictures.

Oh and its only priced at �1895 so actually you are pretty close

Originally posted by Railgun88:
LH,

There are a few red flags on this dagger! (SEE PHOTO)The Gap should not be there, the blade has had some pretty serious re-buffing, the maker mark and motto have been re-touched, the Scabbard has been re-painted, and, of course, there are a lot of pressure chips where the nut has been too tight!

Ray, RG88

Grip shrinkage occurs on many, many SS and SA daggers. The blade does not appear to have been buffed at all. It has nice original crossgrain. I see no photo of the motto here but the RZM mark and code do not appear to be retouched. Lighting will cause the burnished parts to appear very dark. As far as the scabbard goes, it's impossible to tell if it's a post war repaint in the photos but it looks right to me.

Hi Skyline , many thanks for those sensible observations , here is the motto to help everyone , good thread this !!

Hello,

quote:

as regards rebuffing I have never seen a rebuffed blade with such original cross graining"

No Problem on that, but, I do restorations and replacing the grain is not that much of a deal, expensive and time consuming, but really not too big an issue. [QUOTE] "ref the guy only asked etc. I have absolutely no objection to someone getting opinions on my items but they should have the common courtesy to ask me first if they are using my pictures."[/QUOTE). I agree with this statement, as it also happened to me just recently in this Forum! BUT Please refresh! I have no idea what / Who you are talking about, Me? The Person Originally asking for Opinions?, Someone totally unrelated to this discussion?... did I miss something? On the gap, I am indeed used to seeing occasional gaps caused by shrinkage of the wood, but they are usually more uniform and visible on BOTH the top and bottom fittings when present. In this case, I am not sure if it is one of the many pressure cracks, Shrinkage, or a problem extant when the dagger was assembled. It could have been caused by any number of things, even the photo lighting, to some degree. But I did grant this the benefit of the doubt and stated that I would not allow that to hurt the deal on it's own. A "Hands On" examination would answer that question instantly! I will not comment on your price, my comment was purely mine in that regard. At any rate, the dagger DOES appear to be Original to me! My comments were simply to answer the inquiry as best I could and not intended to influence anything.



Best Regards,



RG88

Yorkshireman, I was writing my reply during the time which Skyline posted his comment and did not see it until I had already posted mine. My comments were directed to Arkan and were simply an attempt to answer his Original question. They are nothing more than my OPINIONS, and I stand by them! Skyline, Sir, I wonder why you would choose to ignore answering the question by Arkan until the opportunity presented itself to allow you to create some Tense Feelings Regarding an Opinion. If you have such a passionate and concrete opinion on the item, and I acknowledge that you do have the expertise and experience, why did you choose not to give him the courtesy of an answer until you had someone to try to rebut? I have not been as intensively active in this hobby as you have, due to the fact that you are Primarily a Dealer in these artifacts. But, at 30+ Years, I would say our involvement is about equal. ALL my statements are Just my Opinions, and not intended to confront or antagonize. Just wondering. I would appreciate an answer to the above musings, but it is certainly not demanded. I am most likely finished in my comments on this matter and my opinions can be seen and either accepted or discarded. I directed them to ARKAN and I hope they reached their intended recipient. For whatever they are worth.

My Very Best,

RG88

I agree with Skyline,
The blade is unbuffed and the grip gap is just shrinking. The scabbard does look to have been repainted sometime after it was made, i would expect to see at least some crazing of the paint. With that said it is a RZM piece so could be original but i doubt it. Either way it doesn't detract from it's value much at all. Definately worth more than $2000.00 more like $2400.00-$2500.00 but with the economy who's to say for sure IMO.

Eric Wien

RG88... my comments were not intended to flame you. If they had been you would most certainly know it. They are my opinions and differ from yours. Also, I am not "Primarily a Dealer". I can't imagine where that came from...

I am an American resident in UK.
I am a Collector and do the Shows AND watch "the goings on" and there are some believe me.....
For the UK market in this apparent condition
(pics) and RZM at the Sterling price it is way overpriced.Except from certain "Dealers"
Seiler

Hi Seiler,
thanks for your input , the general opinion seems to be around $2500 , mine is only $180 over this so not really ' way overpriced '.
especially with the pound at such a low ebb I believe this is ' fairly priced ' nice condition SS dagger.

With respect,"to each his own,mon ami"I personally would not buy it at that price.
Bon chance!!!
Seiler (yank in uk)

Wow many replys so fast
I have not comment this dagger. Only comments the first posting.

LH

I would not have it in my collection. -JMO-

Regards,
-serge-

Hi Skyline,

Sorry if I threw you in the "dealer" Catagory too quickly. I think I may have confused you with another guy with the Moniker of "Lakeside Drive" or something similar. Yes?

RG88

quote:

Originally posted by Serge (aka Wagner):
I would not have it in my collection. -JMO-

Regards,
-serge-

Come to think of it again... if the price was "right" I'd toss it in.

-serge-

I am with Skyline, etc. I do not see anything unexpected, especially as concerns "upgrades" to the blade. The scabbard might have been repainted.

Dave

My comments relate specifically to the High
prices demanded by run of the mill SS daggers in UK and the ever increasing number of
Fakes.
Seiler