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#86907 03/17/2008 12:09 AM
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Hello,

We have been debating whether or not the white SchPo NCO tunic authorized for 6 months in 1936 was ever actually produced or used. I found this photo on German e-bay. I believe it shows just such a tunic in wear.

Clearly, the individual pictured is wearing a green schirmmutze with a leather NCO's chinstrap, so he is NOT a traffic policeman. Although his boards cannot be clearly seen, the whistle in the pocket also supports his being an NCO rather than an officer.

If this photo is what it appears to be it may be the elusive evidence that has been lacking to settle the debate.

Regards,
William Unland

White_EM.jpg (34.92 KB, 142 downloads)
#86908 03/17/2008 12:11 AM
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Here is the seller's close-up of the eagle. Just too small to say for sure but looks "colored". The individual wears the SS runes, so a full SS member whic might have something to do with his having purchased a white tunic???

White_EM2.jpg (3.93 KB, 141 downloads)
#86909 03/17/2008 12:13 AM
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And lastly, here is my eagle which has been the subject of some debate in the past which I believe would have been worn on just such a tunic.

This is the only such eagle, or photo I have ever run across. Clearly white NCO tunics were extremely rare and not widely used.

Regards,
Bill Unland

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#86910 03/17/2008 01:39 AM
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Bill,

That is a wonderful photo. This fellow is a snappy dresser for sure. Big Grin


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#86911 03/17/2008 01:51 AM
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Bill can you firgue out what color his pants are?

#86912 03/17/2008 02:43 AM
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Dear Joe,

The pants seem to be nearly the same color as the cap so I'm guessing it is a police green. They look very light, but I think it is because of bright sunshine.

Regards,
Bill u

#86913 03/17/2008 06:15 PM
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Bill, This is really exciting information(!)

You just don't find this sort of information in the Books. I am intrigued that you had a 'hunch' about the white Polizei NOC uniform + that ultra-rare 'white' background eagle.

It's amazing now that a TR period photo has come into place, which adds credence to your thoughts! (It might be a good idea to buy that Photos - at all costs..) Good going... Txs, Dave/dblmed


[Always looking for TeNoSchumaTechnische Noodhulp Items...]
#86914 03/17/2008 08:23 PM
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Only one observation : the sleeves seem very short for his long arms !

#86915 03/17/2008 08:27 PM
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One more observation : It looks to me like the lower pockets have a center pleat , which I thought is a 'No-no 'for a white police tunic !

#86916 03/17/2008 09:50 PM
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Dear Bernd,

He also is wearing collar tabs, another "don't do" on a white tunic. Obviously this guy was a free thinker! It seems that these recently discovered photos again show that uniform "regulations" were only loosely followed by the civil police. I think these guys did pretty much what made them feel good out in the country.

Perhaps this guy's SS status made him feel entitled, perhaps it is an SS issue tunic. We will never know.

As far as sleeve length I have seen MANY war time photos with short sleeves. I don't think these were tailored to fit too much.

I believe Gary bought the photo.

Regards,
Bill Unland

#86917 03/18/2008 01:05 AM
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Bill,

I have seen some police tunics with pleated lower pockets but it is out of the ordinary. I have also seen photos of collar tabs being worn on the white tunics but again, not what we normally see.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#86918 03/18/2008 04:01 AM
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Hello,

Well, the other forum has gone the way of suggesting this is a posed post war photo. I do NOT quite buy into that quite yet. It is unusual but NOT so far out as to be unbelievable. If I was going to fake a photo it wouldn't be of such an obscure subject as a SchPo white tunic. If it was faked whomever did it got everything right!

The only thing that stands out to me in this photo as being really off is the fence. Does that fence look like a German used period fence?Was "chain-link" common???? I have seen many camp photos with the same type of curved pole tops, but the fences are always twisted barbed wire, not chain link. This fence looks US army to me.

Perhaps a German member can comment on the use of such fencing. I just don't know.

Regards,
Bill U

#86919 03/18/2008 02:55 PM
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Dear Bill : Please give us your opinion on the "pleats" on the lower pockets . I always thought ,that that was NOT done on police white tunics! Thanks , Bernd

#86920 03/19/2008 11:07 AM
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Dear Bernd,

I have seen so many photos of police uniform anomalies that NOTHING really surprises me. If we assume that police officer's white tunics had no pleats on the lower pockets then we must conclude that this is NOT a regulation "police" tunic.

JoeW has pointed out on the other forum that he seems to be wearing a Sudentenland ribbon, which would put the time when this photo was taken outside the period when NCO white tunics were authorized in 1936.

If that is the case then this tunic is either "retained" from when they were authorized, or this "fashion conscious" NCO has purchased an army or SS white tunic and badged it with his police insignia.

This photo is very strange if not unique and I doubt we will ever know what is really going on here.

White tunics are so rare I have never owned one, and cannot offer an opinion as to whether or not they were ever produced with lower pocket pleats. It would really NOT surprise me though. If an NCO went into a uniform shop in 1936 and said he wanted a white tunic I can see the tailor copying a standard army NCO summer cotton tunic, which DOES have lower pleats. I don't think that the regulations stipulated pattern for the NCO white tunic. It was so short lived I'm sure there were no "standards" written.

Regards,
Bill Unland


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