UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Butcher Frog

Gentlemen,

Do you think this frog is legit ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6610406353

Keith

Too heavy stamped marking, i would be carefully, wait for other opinions.best regards,Andy

This frog looks correct to me and the stamping is probably a Luftwaffe re-issue unit stamping as these were utilized by the Luftwaffe, especially the RLM.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

Keith, I would say it is OK. Most unit markings I see have that flat stamp impression (probably heat with pressure) as opposed to the V type cut of a manufacturer marking. Also, too obscure of a marking for a fake. Now if it said SS I'd be worried! Nice frog I hope you get it.---Jeff

Keith, Less common than the �V� type of characters, I also have at least one example of a broad flat style Luftwaffe unit marked frog, but for the 84/98 (and some other slightly narrower ones). I agree and it looks OK to me also. Good Luck!! FP

Many thanks Gentlemen for the excellent input. I was watching the auction but didn't bid. A bit steep for me though !

Cheers,

Keith

mistake

.

Ronald,

why do you think that the "BAM"-mark is a Luftwaffe Stamp?

I would say, it means Bekleidungs Amt Marine. Luftwaffe marks BAL.

Best regards

Kolibri

Kolibri, A minor point, but as early as 1935 Third Reich era 84/98 Luftwaffe frogs were marked �L.B.A.� so I think that you may have changed the order with �BAL� ?? It also occurred to me that there could be other possibilities for �BAM� given the complexity and contradictions of some of the German marking systems, and the fact that the frog is brown. But WW I field gear/uniforms is not an area where I have a lot of expertise and I�m more than willing to expand my knowledge with input from a specialist or specialists in that collecting area. Best Regards, FP

Fred,

at first, you are right. LBA not BAL.

The Navy marked in this time only BAK or BAW (Kiel or Wilhelmshaven).

The frog looks without any doubt like a reissued WW1 frog, but a Luftwaffe-mark seems me impossible. There was no Airforce in Germany 1930 and the mark means BA, not LBA. BAM 9-30 must mean "Bekleidungsamt M�nchen, September (?) 1930".

I dont know, why it is brown. In the past I found more than one Reichswehr belts in brown leather. But may be, it was a private bought frog - look at the thin thread, the thin leather and it seems me a little bit to shiny for a chamber-piece. The markings could be put later on the frog, to sell it a little bit better.

Only for showing a LBA mark on a knot.

Regards

Kolibri

Actually the reason I asked about this frog is because I have a similar one but it was obviously a fake. The markings are identical to the one at eBay but the date on mine is 1914 instead of 1915.

Same BAM 9 30 stamped on the back side. I said its a fake because this frog use aluminum rivets. It smells new and the corners / edges are real sharp.

This frog came with a Weimar reissue police bayonet / sidearm. The seller honestly admitted that he made up this rig with a frog that "purchase at fleamarket". If examine closely, this frog is thinner than comtemporary butcher frogs.

I am not sure about the one at eBay, I was thinking are all BAM 9 30 marked frogs are fakes or only those dated 1914 ???

Thanks again for the input

Keith

Keith,

I got a couple of those frogs out of a junkbox at a show over 18 years ago now, so they've been round a few years at least. There were a couple more that had seen better days; the stitching was going & they were oil soaked. Like yours they're also smooth side out, thinner leather than normal service versions, but have steel rivets & although they were obviously a reasonable age, they had never held a bayonet. All 1914 & 1915 dates. Every one I've seen to date has the same 'property' mark... I'd say they're more like a dress frog though.

Mick

Hi Mick,

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Many thanks for the input. These frogs are very well made and in time I think they will pass as real stuff like those fake daggers and even engraved 98Ks.

Cheers,

Keith

Hi Keith,

thanks! Who knows where they came from, but they are quite well made as you say.

Surely you wouldn't put them in the same class as those garish engraved 98k's though! I'd have to go to the trouble of dragging those frogs out from wherever they're hidiong & getting rid of them. :-)

Mick