UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Repro "Russian" SS Chain

OK, from this lead photo, how can one tell this is a repro chain? JR, keep quiet for a bit!

http://cgi.ebay.com/DUGUP-SOME-GERMAN-DAGGER-CHAIN-HANG...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-wagner

I'd say the shape and length of the link(s) from the knot to the chain for one thing?

Regards

Russell

Dig! Dig! Dig!...for Russell!
Yes, a 1990's repro known as the "russian" SS chain.
The fakers have been selling these "dugup" chains to the unwary and ripping them off. Been in the ground a month after first taking a little spin in a cement mixer.
You guys are good! Let's see what else we can come up with?
-wagner-

The dead giveaway is the connecting link to the clover leaf.

Yep, the skulls look more like the "Jolly Rodger"... funny looking things...

Good....
OK, JR. you want to put the finishing touches on this?

Just looking at the links on my Type II chained SS the holes appear to have rounder edges as opposed to the squarer cut of these. I'm not sure if this is always so but JR might be able to shed some light on this. ~ Ian

But wait... there's more the centre scabbrad ramp needs little explanation, they look almost machined.

Here are more pix provided by Seller to Russell.
-wagner-

Russell, I'm having a glitch with the photos. Can you do it?

Man! The center Ramp on that thing is a dead giveaway! Look at the top and bottom "Frame"! It looks like Two bands instead of a single beveled one! Is that what you were talking about Wagner?

Com'on Guy's! We don't need JR for everything, do we! Let's use our brains and compare! Here is the center band of my Type-2, note the background "stippling" and the raised border as compared to the "suspect"! The detail of the "suspect" is outstanding, it's just not correct! Regards, Leipzig

P.S. no offense there, JR, ole buddy!

Ok wagner, here are the rest of the pics provided by the seller. Like bushido, I also thought the link holes were a bit too square looking, as though they hadn't had several years of any chain movement to them.

2

3

4

5

Last one.

Regards

Russell

Ding! Ding! Ding! for Railgun88! Yes that's it!
You guys are getting good! Keep it up and you won't end up buying a fake chained SS dagger.
Leipzig is correct the repro center band is actually better made and detailed.
Russell, bushido are right too!
The only "movement" that these chains have gotten was in a cement mixer!
That is the latest scam on these..."Ground Dug".
Earlier "russian" chains didn't have the cement mixer treatment and so they look like
Red Baron's.

Keep going guys! Your doing great!

Thanks Russell with posting the photos.

-wagner-

In hand might make things look different but I'd say that the bands that join the links together are larger than the ones on my type II and the "groove" is also larger/wider. On my type II this "groove" is simply a line not a large channel! ~ Ian

Bushido is on a roll!
Yes, the links are slightly larger and longer.
And you spotted the groove too. Great!
-wagner-

Here's what the type 2 chain should look like.

The chain is now over $400!

This has been a great idea wagner. Perhaps this could become a regular feature of the forum. When's the next test?

Regards

Russell

Here is the center ramp on my type 2 chained.
SSman

This chain sold for $1225........!

Regards

Russell

Wagner, This is really a Great Informative Thread on a subject that continually needs to be constantly reviewed and updated - SS Chains - & their variations. With the SS 36 prices climbing steadily, these Repro Chains & their bretheren will continue to get better!
Dave .... dblmed

$1225! Thanks for the follow-up Russell.

Well..Well..It looks like there were a lot of "Fish" biting hard for this junk chain. Also means that there will be a good 33-SS scabbard destroyed. And we're going to have a fake 36-SS on the market!

This is what's going on in our hobby boys.
And Dave is right we have to stay on top of this so we can warn and educate our members. If you guys see any variations of these fake chains, let me know or just post it on this thread so we can have it updated. And then we will keep exposing the fraudsters fakes.

If you guys feel these "How to tell a Repro" threads are worthy of your interest and participation, we can do a couple more. It's only with education that we can limit our exposure to the "fleecing" that is unfortunatly evident in our hobby.

-wagner-

Excellent thread!!!

Guess I need to look more often into this part of the forum...

Cheers,

excellent thread
keep on!!!

OK, you guys want more???

...Here's one for you. Tell me what you guys see here?

I might need a little help with placing the photos "direct".

http://www.militarycollectiblesinc.com/pictures.php?file=da00791

-wagner-

Oh My!!!!! Dare one to Say ... or to Think It?

COULD it be? ....a Russian Chain?

Yikes..... Dave / dblmed

The link that Wags shows in his post points to several characteristics that indicates that the dagger is a Factory Ground Rohm M33 Hammesfahr. Many times when I see a maker marked SS dagger in a chain scabbard configuration, it's with a Type I chain. The group mark III indicates that the dagger more than likely was an issued M33 at one time prior to the chain feature. In my opinion, SOME M33 SS daggers had just the chain attachment added on to the exsisting scabbard shell, of an SS Man that fulfilled the requirements to carry a chain scabbard.

I've seen these photos before, and truthfully haven't been satisfied with the connectors that are seen attached to the Wotan's knot. A close up of the skull links would be helpful in identifying this chain for sure.

Hey Guys, On my Type two the connector links are much more "Rounded". The type ones are slightly more flattened out. This one looks more like the connectors from a type one. RG88

Should be just the opposite as the Type I connectors were made much more substantial than the light weight ones used on the Type II scabbards.

JR, I know what you are saying and agree, what I was reffering to was not the "weight" but just the appearence. the Type two are more flattened out looking than the type one which are more circular. Am I making sense? RG88

Which has the more flat connectors ?

A. ?

Or B ?

I have yet to see a square cut slot on a Type II chain link.
And I have never seen the long link cloverleaf attaching to chain, other than something out of a eastern block repro. (Russian)
There are a couple of more minute details but I don't think it is necessary to have a "hands on" on this one. In my humble opinion....
---- it's a fake chain ----
Sure wish it wasn't. And if someone says "It Ain't So"... OK, but you'll have to show why.

Yes, I know the one about the "rare variation that the fakers used as their pattern". That's not going to "fly" this time.

Nice "Macro" there JR.

-wagner-

JR,

OK, OK, You win!

RG88