UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum HJ Style, Made in Italy ????

Found this knife a while back, Handle assy appears solid Nickle steel,grip plates are plastic type. Scabbard is stamped ITALY while blade is marked PENN ITALY. Bought it as a repro type, But did see one in one of the Johnson Books, very similar, even had a broken grip. So what is it? real or memorex? Thanks Denny

Oops, Forgot the pics

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Post war type hj knife with stag grips made in Italy....regards scott.

Thanks Scott, I kinda figured, but ya just never know. Denny

US / UK export item. If it was for the domestic market it would be marked "ITALIA" or "ITALIEN".

Some original components?

Scabbard?

Photo taken from the above mentioned ref. book. Very simular handle shape and grips.

my knife

reference

mine

So if it was not marked Italy what are the clues that would identify it as a repro ?

Perhaps reproduction is not quite the correct term for this knife as it implies it is a copy of something. Its basic style is that of an HJ or postwar scout knife. The rivets look different to those of an HJ and also the front rivet on the scabbard is different when compared with an original HJ scabbard. The plates are poorly fitted as well. I'd like to know how the one in the book is described.

Regards
Russell

I am leaning towards the opinion that this was made for export, since there is not much evidence to say otherwise.Although, here is the statement from the reference book.

Thanks for providing the description. I think the book item is likely embellished post-war and it is not described as a period item but perhaps left open to interpretation. There is no mention of any blade markings. I would be interested to read if anyone has seen this type of knife as presented in the book.

Regards
Russell

I Got something like this, made by herder. It dosnt have the fascist emblem but one that says Denmark And the scabbard is cromed and have plastic straps, will try to get some pictures of it tonight.

Another that appeared in one of the early volumes (and earlier discussions), of an obviously altered bayonet with an HJ pin attached by a spanner nut. They were some even more obvious fakes in the book - the point being that just because it is in a book can easily mean nothing if the author made an error in judgement.

What was to me more interesting than this particular fake itself were the �copycats�. Who created additional examples of fakes of fakes to be sold to unsuspecting buyers. Buyers who believed that whatever was in a book had to be legitimate!! FP?

FP--the knife you show above is accepted by almost all who have been in the hobby for many years as a rare period-pre regulated piece--and they have been around forever.

Houston,

Please don�t take offense to this, but just being around for a long time does not necessarily confer legitimacy to a piece. One case in point that comes to mind was this elaborately decorated NSKK dagger. If I remember the discussion correctly, that has been around since the 1950�s, and I think was recently put up for sale.

It�s been a long, long time since I�ve seen one. But the few HJ bayonets like that which I remember seeing years go looked to have been hand done. And as I recall, my reaction was, �I can do better work than that!� (as a lay person - much less somebody with some talent and a few tools).

With the example in the book. With the diamond seeming to be at an angle, and the spanner nut messed up, I have the same feeling. That somebody removed the rivet, relieved the grip plates, and installed the diamond.

That is just my opinion, but that�s the way I see it.

Best Regards, FP

Apples and oranges, One has nothing to do with the other--but yes --of course being around for a long time,and having a lot of experience means nothing compared to the newer experts in technoglop

This very early Anton Wingen "eaglehead" HJ fighting knife style is 100% authentic. Only made by this maker and not a single piece (that they are made of) is identic to any bayonet: the diamond is not mounted on the grip, but is placed in a cutout near the guard, using it as one of the rivets.

Actually, this HJ knife is wrongly published by Bowman as being a fake and that started the controversy among collectors.

I have seen a few of these knifes, but unfortunately I do not own one (yet), so I cannot post photo's this time.

If someone has one for sale, please let me know, I am looking for one.

Best greetings,

Herman