UBB.threads Forums General Interest Community Center Patrice Vialle and other Questions

Dave....

Seriously?

The code of conduct has been applied with wreck less inconsistency.

As a long-time paid member the application of COC rules has been handled so ham-handedly as to cause more harm than good.

Look at it this way Dave, in reading this thread and all of the personal e-mails that I know you have received: have you heard more from people who were outraged by:
A) Pat's PG13 comment, or
B) by your shortsighted handling of the COC.

??????????

IF more harm is being done to GDC and its' membership by these "bannings" than the original "offending" comment itself, then you have overreacted.

Seeing GOOD MEMBERS getting banned because of a COC which is being wielded from a: "Hey you darn kids, get off my lawn (shaking fist)" perspective is... tiring.

Good hunting (for new valuable GDC contributors!)
Johnny

Well I have had my little spar with Pat, and I got over it and so did Pat. IMO Pat is ok by me, sorry we did not have time to have that Beer at the MAX show.
I got suspended w/o warning for poking fun at our current President.

I rarely post on this sight. Gee wonder why???? Fact: Data does not lie every year we loose knowledgeable folks on this sight. It’s really too bad.

Dave can we have a great big group hug w/ you and Pat in the middle????

Dave,

With all due respect you, Vern and your fellow GDC unterführer's seem to be the only one disturbed by any of the recent comments. The membership is more disturbed with the constant policing; i.e., removal of post, banning of members, and PC politics. Heck I was a paying member for a long time but really who wants to pay when all the long standing members have got the boot already over their refusal to accept what has transpired here. You know the awesome forum to the not so much happening/kinda lame forum phenomenon. We are just a bunch of collectors who want to collect, talk about collecting, make tongue in cheek politically incorrect jokes occasionally. It all seems very authoritarian here anymore. The running of this reminds me of a relative who was in the police force and never wanted to relinquish his former power so oppressed everyone around him. I mean the police are great but this is a forum it doesn't have to be a "police state forum". The forum took a swing for the worse almost 5 years ago when some new politically correctness swing started. Maybe we can take it in a new direction. But it starts with you Dave. A whole new prospective on this site and its operation would be a good start. I know its probably tough to monitor and run a whole site but it can be done while making its members happy.

quote:

Originally posted by jim m:
Hohaus above:

quote:

I will say that with the exceptions mentioned below*, no one gets suspended by me without previous warnings. And no one has been expelled without at least two or more suspensions and not just for telling jokes, either.

Email from Mark Paul:
I was never warned at all. Plus a 90 day 'suspension'. The Code of Conduct says suspensions are for less time.

Email from Patrice Vialle:
Absolutely not, I was never ever warned recently.
I did get warned about 3 years ago but that's a long time ago.

I suppose since I was warned about something several years ago I'm now eligible to be suspended
Jim

What should actually be clear is that Patrice pointed out the "problem" here on GDC. To all of us that have been here for awhile was another example of "Selective Punishment". The above are just two examples of how the "fairness" is administered here.

That thread at the open violated CoC since the photos were NOT given permission by the owner to be posted. Photos and their use are by the consent of the owner. If he refuses then they must be pulled!
So, Dave, the way I see it you should have closed that trolling thread and pulled the photos. But instead you jumped in and fanned the flames further. Most posters didn't know that they were being "used" and it's not their fault. Patrice being a Man-of-Honor saw the injustice and called it out. For that he was banned.

If Jim's SS Mod. 33 Eickhorn dagger had the word "Original" above the Squirrel, and you had seen another example, perhaps you wouldn't have used this opportunity to "get-em" and in the process violate the very rules that you claim to adhere "Fair and Balanced".

Regards,
-serge-

As they say in the English Parlament:

"Hear, hear".

I agree with you Jim and Adam - both of you describe the problem VERY well !!

J,-

Agreed!
I could never understand how a forum for people who collect Nazi stuff, could get so hung up on political correctness...

There is nothing politically correct about us!


It would be like Lawyers censoring themselves for ethics!
Or politicians policing their own honesty
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

It is like Bizarro World in here!

PS: I have to add that I've had my problems with Mr. Hohaus too. Thus I decided to stay away.

I only came back because Pat sent me a mail saying he had been banned. To me this is yet another proff that this socalled "Coded of conduct" has stepped over it's own line.

I don't believe Mr. Hohaus got a warning when he repeated so many times that my PERFECT Böker was a parts dagger because of an RZM scabbard

Maybe we could start a show for the history channel.

German Dagger's Dot Com After People, or GDC population 0.

There seems to be a focal point on GDC. Dave YOU seem to be part of the problem here by Antagonizing, provoking, paying members. COC states clearly "Please do not bicker, troll, insult, flame, or make posts that are calculated to make others angry, damage their reputation or start arguments." It seem fun for you to stir the pot and cause fights amoung us. This NOT good business practice!

Case and point I asked a mod to remove some of my postings on my argument w/ Pat. Once removed you placed them back on.....WHY? Fuel the fire? NOT good! Why place people in power if they are over-ruled?

quote:

Originally posted by Eric Rader:
There seems to be a focal point on GDC. Dave YOU seem to be part of the problem here by Antagonizing, provoking... and damage their reputation.

Please check this comment from Dave in another thread out:

"Mr. Hjorth - ou812,

What you have offered for sale is not correct combination despite the components being in very good shape. I would not recommend it to anyone except for parts .

Dave"

AND check out this comment to Daves opions:

"Originally posted by sellick8302@rogers.com:

I think it unfair to hijack a premium members "For sale" ad because of words or "opinions" this dagger though not worth $7000 is definately a decent buy for $3000 to $3500 to someone who does not want to spend $5000++ on one with an anondized scabbard with nickle silver fittings.."


Source: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...=120100631#120100631


As a conclusion I'd like to add that we here in Denmark have a saying that directly translated goes something like:


"Do not throw stones if you live in a glass house".


NO accusations - merely a request to all members and moderators about treating fellow collectors good and not showing off with better knowledge nor power.

This is why I left GDC !!!

Jesper

Thanks for sharing your opinion guys, But I wish you would not put "Dead or Alive" on the posters

To others reading this thread:With the exception of Johnny V., ALL who posted after my note of earlier today have been warned (one of you four times) or suspended after warnings, so the negative opinions come as no surprise. They have voiced them before.

If you don't like me or the way the CoC is administered, then why hang around?

Dave

The high end collectors are crucial to potential high end discussions.

NMT

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:

If you don't like me or the way the CoC is administered, then why hang around?

Dave

Dave, if you enforced the CoC in a correct and equal manner no matter to whom the the comments etc are posted, then maybe this situation had not appeared after Patrices comments.

Someone mentioned another site, maybe it will indeed be better if all of us who do not like Dave's enforcement of the Code of Anger actually leave. Tell me where to go guys!!

Best regards,

This Site is a Hohaus Free Zone:

http://www.worldwarmilitaria.com/forum/usercp.php

Quote D Hohaus "why hang around" you seem to have enough rope buddy just get on with it!
By the way who is Vern ,the puppeteer??

Can someone email me the address of the new site you are all going to?tonycrazyhorse@hotmail.com
See you there

Here's a site especially for Danes:

www.militarianet.dk

Let me see if I understand this, you pay to become a premium member so that you can have access to the for sale section otherwise all other sections are free. Then you place an ad to sell an SS dagger and a representative of the organization that you paid for this privilege sabotages it by posting..

"Ryan,

It's a parts dagger being sold for almost $7000.

Nice parts, but still a parts dagger and in my opinion, overpriced.

You buy it if you want, but my advice to new or intermediate collectors is to avoid this dagger.

Dave"

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/...=120100631#120100631


Who do I make out my membership check too?

I was warned about two weeks ago...for mentioning an honest, true and 100% factual incident about the offering of a highly questionable item to a GDC member by a moderator...there was only one stated insult in the post ...reference to me as a "deadbeat" but guess who received the warning/threat gents? This very forum has supported the naming of these sellers and the calling out of fakes....my supportive evidence was by the two "biggest" names in the hobby in reference to headgear specialists...the result? I am threatened...eventually we eat our own!!! I will NOT renew my premium membership for this...regards and respect to all..Dave, your job is a thankless task...I have met you more than once at previous Max shows..I am certain that you remember neither me nor our "discussions" I guess that I was an "okay" chap before my GDC reputation reared its ugly head..yes you have a thankless job on this forum that I would not want in a zillion years, but you are not a total innocent...this is not Dave bashing or even a criticism...you do have my respect as does Vern...2 great chaps and a benefit to the hobby...but sometimes guys you do have to take a step back and self evaluate...just my opinion...Happy Thanksgiving to all of my Canadian friends...cheers, Ryan

SADagger - Bob. re-read that thread and look at the other side: Lets say you are not a Premium Member but a guy looking for great SS Dagger.

You look at the ad - Wow this could be it, you think. You look a while later. Skyline caught it first: Early dagger + plated scabbard. Zorro posted: "Whats with knowledgable collectors leaving out important information on items they are selling lately(Plated scabbard fittings on an early dagger)?. Recently I have bought items missing pieces,repaired,parts that have not been mentioned in the discription or coverderd up with the cameras angle.Please discribe items completely.I am getting close to quit buying anything on the web JMO"

After Ou812 said there was nothing wrong in that combination, Jonathan posted: At the risk of getting into trouble (again..), I would second zorro's comments - I would not want to buy an early maker marked ss '33 with nickel silver fitings if it has been married to a scabbard with plated fittings

The members of GDC saved you from buying an incorrect combination.

Dave

While I personally think that the old timers should be "cut some slack" for their outbursts, as long as when the calm down, sober up, they apologize, what is clear here is how difficult and thankless Dave's job is.

I am also surprised that the people who miss behaved and were warned or suspended seem to recognize no responsibility for their own actions.

Also note the blame game. Case in point, a member is involved in a thread where he is "accused" of being a dead beat buyer, and he immediately makes charges against other members to avoid the fact the discussion was about him being a deadbeat. Other transactions not related have to the thread do not dimish the fact we were discussing a dead beat buyer.

The fact is, I have checked all the other militaria sites. If you look at the number of people posting and looking, GDC is well above the rest. If you look at the expertise and critical eyes of our moderators when presenting a piece, this is the only place I trust for honest straight forward answers.

This is why collectors keep coming back here.

Dave, I definitely believe there should be a double standard here. The older members have paid their dues in more ways than with cash. Everyone gets fired up on occaision, especially when you are dealing with those crazy French Canadians. But there is nothing that an apology between friends can't cure.

Just my thoughts

Jim,

Thanks for that post. You hit many nails on the head with that one.

You are correct about slack for senior members and this happens quite often. I tend to simply trim off the offensive remarks, post a note without naming anyone and sending no warning to anyone unless it is really something nasty. I always hope that the fellow will get the message and not repeat it. Most do but some don't.

Case in point: On page 4 of the famous NSKK thread, I posted: I have removed some insulting/trolling posts that had nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. Or, I just ask that everyone calm down and be more polite.

Dave

im no crawler , but why not sin bin anyone for a cool off period for a week if they contrevine rule , we all know the rules here, and sometimes we get carried away,hey, we all do in the heat of a debate, however, we must respect daves stance and position ,or we would be a cess pit of a slanging match regularlly.tough love for me, sorry

Phil,

A sin bin (as I think you are suggesting) would identify people to the rest of the members and that does no good as it just embarrasses them. The purpose of warnings and, if necessary, suspensions, is to convince the person to stop doing something, not to shame them.

PAT CAN BE A HOT HEAD AT TIMES AND SO CAN I. PAT AND I HAD A DISAGREEMENT OVER SHIPPING OF ALL THINGS.
BUT AFTER A WEEK IT WAS ALL FORGOTTEN AND ALL IS WELL. A LOT OF TIMES WE SPEAK BEFORE WE THINK .
I DO THAT ALL THE TIME THAT'S WHY I DON'T SAY MUCH HERE. SOME TIMES WE ALL JUST NEED A WEEK TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WE SAID.

PAT IS ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS I HOPE TO SEE HIM BACK SOON. BESIDES I LIKE HIS WIFE

Wow, Patrice banned.
Disturbing info indeed.
Hard to make a direct judgment, since most of his comments have been deleted.
From what I saw, some shenanigans were being pulled against a friend of his, and he rose up in defense.

Pat, as everyone is aware, is an honorable, knowledgeable gentleman.
I bought a dagger from him last year, after a bit of correspondence he sent the $1,000 dagger days before he even received payment.
I told him the $$ was on the way, he was going on vacation and didn't want me to wait on his return to ship it, so he sent it out, trusting that I really did send payment.

This is all really pretty sickening Dave, cannot help but feel its a death knell for this forum.
Reversing yourself probably won't do any good at this point, he obviously posts at other forums.

If you feel you over reacted, I hope that you man up and apologize.
I understand, forums have rules and there are people to enforce them but if you get to the point where people feel that they are walking on eggshells, that is when people start looking for other venues.

note - Wrote this without reading through the thread.

quote:

Pat is in no way deserving of any disciplinary action. If I was still running things, as founder of GDC, I would give him a friendly call and chat on the phone, and schedule a beer or a drink of wine at the next show! Pat - you've got my vote of confidence and support.

Craig Gottlieb
Founder
German Daggers Dot Com

To me it's a really sad day here when even the founder of GDC states that something is wrong and is ignored. I feel bad about this situation because Pat was defending me in a thread where a tactless individual posted pictures of an item I own WITHOUT my permission. Then the Administrator here who is supposed to be a neutral party proceded to fan the flames in this very same thread. If I was looking to dicipline someone it would be the guy who posted my pictures without my permission and started this mess.
Jim

Amen to that Jim.

Cheers,

I believe Patrice should be reinstated. I'll even let him (or Dave) ride my Segway around SOS for a victory lap!

Well I may just bring my "Chopper" along and we can have a drag race!! This bad boy tops out at 15MPH.

Jim

those photos should be removed since they were posted with out your ok, least thats what Vern was saying about the rules the forum host has. GDC could get in hot water for not following the rules. Someone should take down those images before that happens
Bret Van Sant

Bret:
Actually I initially ignored the thread even when the poster of those pictures tried to goad me into responding. The dagger is 100% original,Smooth tail logo,AR crossguards,benchmarked 8,in an anodized scabbard with nickle fittings etc. It had a crack to the grip when I got it because it sat in a storage trunk in an unheated garage for over 30 years. I of course disclosed the crack repair to the interested party.
I would have let this go,unauthorised pictures and all, if Dave Hohaus didn't decide to fan the flames here. At that point as he had attached my name to the dagger and I felt I had to say something I did. The blade looks shinier than it is due to my picture taking limitations and that's the problem period.
There's an old saying attributed to Henry Ford that goes like this: "Never explain anything. Your friends don't require it and your enemies won't believe you anyway."
So this is about the only explaination you'll get from me.
Jim

Being a new member to this site I can only say I was warned by others this is somewhat a hostile site for serious collectors. From what I have seen that seems to be backed up by what I have read in this forum. When I first joined and introduced myself I was welcomed by two or three members which I appreciated. But for the most part I think it's pretty much a "closed shop" where the favored high end collectors prevail without regard to longtime or new members who don't follow order. I had made a comment about our new Joke-In-Chief and received a stern warning that I would be suspended if I crossed the line again because is was a political and insulting comment which I agreed to the political part. However, it was not insulting to anyone on this site. If I'm suspended or not I will stand firm on my convictions as an AMERICAN. So, suspend or ban me, this seems to be a bad venture anyway.

109, most topic specific forums have prohibitions against political/racial/religious topics that are likely to erupt into flames.
That is as it should be, I think.
There are plenty of forums geared towards those specific topics, people inclined to engage in banter on those subjects should go there.

You make one seemingly innocent, wise comment against a certain politician, then someone on the other side feels bound to issue an equally witty rejoinder from his perspective.
You have a reply for that, to which they respond in kind, people pick sides and stand their ground, pretty soon you have harsh words and flame wars.
Thats not needed here, so I hope you see the logic of not allowing it.

As far as Patrice, he is well known and nearly universally regarded as a gentleman, a knowledgeable and easy going collector and someone who is hard to provoke.
He & Jim were provoked, from post #1 of that thread there was nothing but provocation in mind, calculated to stir ill feeling among fellow collectors.
It was not only allowed to go on, but the flames were fanned by the admin of this site, and pictures published against the specifically stated will of the owner of the pics were allowed to stand.
So he was pushed beyond his limits and acted accordingly, is banned for reacting, and the person that started it all slinks away, apparently none the worse for the wear.

Thats my take on it, point being that this situation with Pat and other seemingly heavy handed prohibitions of this forum are not exactly related.
My compliments to CG for speaking his mind in a + fashion in this matter, I hope that his advice is heeded.

Bring Pat back.

I gather that Pat could come back if he apologizes in print. Maybe, that is something that one could ask, but, then again, I think that, in that case, apologies should be all around and not just from Pat.

Rules were broken..but only one side gets penalized. Is that right? Is that fair?

I see that Pat has started posting on that other site mentioned earlier in this post, and a whole lot of GDC types as well.

John

how does one delete one´s profile from gdc? Pls advice. Thx

Edited for profanity and insults.

Dave

Thaks Dave.. I tried to edit it myself,lol, but been so long since i did that i forgot how.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:

If you don't like me or the way the CoC is administered, then why hang around?

Dave

I see some things never change around GDC (I am looking at you Dave). That's the reason why Johan, Manfred, Bob, etc all left. The list is huge. You all know it.

The problem is, and always was, you Dave Hohaus.

I heard that Pat is gone now too. I read your "need to grovel before me with a written apology" soliloquy and I it reminds me of listening to an egomaniac.

A question for this forum:

Does "rationality" exist among the GDC members to see what's really wrong?

Cough......Lead Moderator.....cough.

I was never banned. I left because of your out of control power trip.

I'll check back in another 2 years or so.

Bye!