UBB.threads Forums General Interest Community Center Patrice Vialle and other Questions

I am consolidating all the comments about Patrice Vialle from various here so no one misses anything and everyone can be in tune with one another. This may take a few minutes. See my comments at the end

Pat,

Send Jim an email and buy the dagger !!

Dave

Edited for insults.

Dave, please reconsider and give Pat a break. I agree that it may have been taken as an insult, but I don't think that it was meant as such.

There have been some pretty heavy things said on this forum in the heat of the debates, but no one deserves to be banned. Especially when it is one who has contributed so much over the years.

Maybe, a suspension is in order, but not a complete ban.

John

Dave.

I think u should reconsider this,we all can get a little "hot"in an discussion.

Soon there won't be anyone left on this forum outside of dealers and their fanclub, am I correct in thinking that Mark Paul (Kingtiger) got the boot too ? I am surprised to see Pat slung out, he's probably been one of the most prolific contributors to this forum in recent years....what on earth did he say that provoked his 'termination' ??

Out of interest Jim who was the individual who passed your photos across to the originator of this thread ?

Dave i am very new to this GDC forum & have never seen so much people bashing & bickering ect ect over daggers in all my time on any these forums!!, I think we are all grown up men here & need to use some common sense on dagger issues & bad comments as things get out of hand most of the time with people insulting each other, So Dave please Kiss & make up with Pat or vice versa & lets all get on with peaceful dagger discussions, hows about it?
Regards Scott.

Personally I think the descisions to ban or suspend individuals should only sanctioned if approved by the majority of mods from each section in a simple poll in the moderator forum.
How hard can it be!.
Pat has always been willing to help new and old collectors alike and his involvement in this thread was nothing more than helping out a prospective buyer. I find it very sad and completely avoidable.

well, that's the thing. while they are waiting for their suspension to be up they find new homes.. We all lose.
There are many here who think 'so what' we're the experts and don't care what anyone says.. there is always the new guys'.. Pretty ****ty way to think but that is what we have here..

This is not Dave's site. He just enforces the rules. tough guys need tough rules but sometimes its over done.. Kris, Pat, Mark,,all good guys. We 're all adults here and even if a puritan an occasional curse, or insulting[?] comment should be tolerated as long as it doesn't become habit.

You guys are wasting your words [although great point ,[paying] ].. ALL these military forum sites are privately owned. It's the owners way or the highway no matter how much you pay..
Hopefully this site won't turn into the MAX board of experts site because if it keeps going the way it is that's what will be left...........

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
Patrice,

You need to find another forum in which to insult folks. Goodbye

Odd, yet this one escaped you:



Posted 06 October 2009 19:13 Hide Post
Not sure I've got this right. What your saying is that someone found a pile of original black leather wrapped honor daggers with Damascus blades after the wars end. They then added the chain and clip. Is that what your saying? Also I'm not sure I understand but are you saying that the reverse inscriptions are post war added? If you are saying any of the above then please seek professional help right away before you harm yourself or others.

Gailen David

Things around here are already too quiet.
Please reconsider

Patrice,

You need to find another forum in which to insult folks. Goodbye

As one who is on the receiving end of a lot of personal insults that are totally uncalled for, I agree that the COC here needs to be applied more judiciously. For Pat, who is a friend, and for whom I have the utmost respect for, I can honestly say that anything Pat said in anger should be overlooked. He's not a troublemaker like some other members, and should be given great latitude. He's a purist collector at heart, and although I am not privy to the situation here, Pat is in no way deserving of any disciplinary action. If I was still running things, as founder of GDC, I would give him a friendly call and chat on the phone, and schedule a beer or a drink of wine at the next show! Pat - you've got my vote of confidence and support.

I am willing to bet that the majority of longtime members and supporters of this site will request that Patrice be re instated...one can go over this forum and point out multiple examples of where this "rule" has been applied descriminately...if he has violated the COE than suspend as you did Mark..if you care to apply this rule hap hazardly than it is your right to do so due to your position in the hierachy. My asking means absolutely nothing as my "reputation" has been significantly diminished on GDC as I have been identified as a "deadbeat" buyer due to one deal that we could not agree upon payment method and one return. I do not agree with this but accept it none the less. The price you pay, along with premium membership, to belong to this forum and enjoy its privilages..I do not know the ins and outs of the dagger situation involving Jim and JR. Before I became a "deadbeat buyer" I purchased a nice chained SS from JR and still appreciate his honesty and professionalism. I also respect Jim and both his knowledge, opinions, and contribution to this forum. I will not comment further. However, if there is an insinuation or allegation without supportive statement or discussion it looks an awful lot like trolling to me..cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
Patrice,

You need to find another forum in which to insult folks. Goodbye

Well I for one as a 'Junior' member hope that Pat isn't being invited to leave here, Bloody ell Dave, Pat is one of your most respected posters on this forum, if something has
p i s s e d him off then maybe you should look at the reason why rather than say what you did.

I never thought I'd ever see Patrice as a being worthy of such a response, Nicest bloke I've 'never' met.

Do please reconsider this.
As mentioned by others in this thread, others have said similar or worse and no punishment received.
If the COE is haphazardously applied and observed, then I think there is no need for a COE!!!!!

Best regards,

Dave
You know I support you in your efforts to keep the site civil. I've read this thread a few times and really feel Pat was asking a question and giving an opinion. I believe he reacted to what he felt was an insult to his opinion. The thread started great but degraded once it became personal. This site is about daggers not members. It's your site and you have the final say but take another look at the thread and it's RESULTS. Yeah I Know, heavy is the head that bears the crown.

quote:

Originally posted by JR:
The seller wanted $15,000.00 for this Himmler, but didn't want the photos of it to be posted GDC for discussion......................

Got the answer....

Or will he be like so many other valuable members that were driven away throughout the years that he wont want to come back. Hope not!

Pat is an honest person.
It would be an error for this forum to do without its often right analyses.

JC

I think that how arbitrarily the finer points of COC are applied is ridiculous. Especially given we are all grown men. It doesn't make much sense and if you extrapolate on the contined use of these methods in enforcing a very austere COC. We will see a continued exodus from a once great forum. I am just flabbergasted that the leadership here does not make the correlation between this and the current state of the forum. We already collect in an area which other might think somewhat objectionable. Are we then so sensitive that a mere comment can cause us a sleepless night? I doubt that so very much.

Secondly While I've meant nearly everyone that is of subject here and can't personally say anything bad about one of them. I think it was extremely objectionable posting photo's that belong to someone else without permission and without giving a full explanation behind the said pictures. I believe Jim deserves that respect. I know there seems to be a disagreements over that stupid dagger in the other thread(which I careless about). But this doesn't give anyone the right to start bashing someones creditability on a completely different issue. With all due respect that seems very elementary. And I can be childish myself at times! If there is an issue with someones creditability on a issue I think is should be handled in that particular area not expanded to a different topic. Because to me a restored dagger has nothing to do with this high priced and questioned dagger in the other thread.

I also believe that Patrice being expelling from the forum to be very arbitrary and unwise. Since he has been on of the more prolific posters of good quality post. I think anyone with his tenure here deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I think all tempers need to calm so rational decisions can be made by all parties involved, but what do I know?

The funny thing is >>that it looks like we are wasting our words here >>we pay the premium and our words need to be respected here. If we are the majority of members feel that some member who is respected as a collector and a huge contributor to the hobby, needs to be given a chance
>>>>>>>Dave you are as the moderator have to respond to the comments
regards
Aleksandr

Dave,

We all at times get a little hot about something or another and I agree with John that Pat would deserve to be given a break here.
It would be for the best of the hobby, it's members and GDC.
Please reconsider.

-serge-

Totally agree >>We are here to discuss, debate, argue, disagree or agree that is why it is called FORUM. If we going to loose such members for nothing/ well than there is no point of this forum at all......... Dave Pat's contribution to the hobby well covers anything he says
............Aleksandr

In regards to what Brickie posted, its Dave's site but alot of us ARE paying members, and I personnally dont think Pat should be bounced so quickly. Why are some so thin skinned around this site? Sometimes things are said in the heat of the discussion, but have to remember, this is all about a HOBBY!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hohaus:
Patrice,

You need to find another forum in which to insult folks. Goodbye

This one will backfire !!!

Simply because GDC - as any other discussion forum - need the high-end members in order to attract new members.

But this isn't - said with the knowledge of a possible similar retaliation - the first time we've seen this kind of a reaction from the moderator.

Now, the one thing that we are not talking about here is why Dave overreacted and that is after he was the one to out the name of the owner of the dagger.

JR posted pictures but did not name anyone at all, but did drop some hints. Dave took it upon himself to publish the name of someone who maybe didn't want his name or his dagger on this site.

Pat reacted to that.

Maybe, if we are overreacting here, Dave should be banished?

Or maybe both should take a deep breath and get back to the hobby.

John

possibly Pat's last post and contribution to this forum...What a shame!!~!!! Ryan

I've just learned that Pat has been banned from this forum.

Dave, please stop banning people. Soon there won't be anyone left to ban!

Please reconsider.

I`d Pack this in my bag any day
well done
Helmut

I agree with all you guys!!!Dave, please let Pat back on here. His contribution to the forum will be greatly missed!!! everyone gets a little hot under the collar in any heated debate, that is the idea of the forum isnt it? maybe a cool off period may be in order as i read on another comment! but a complete ban is wrong and no good for the forum, after all we are all blokes here lets start acting like it i hope i havent offended anyone!
Adam

Stephane:

My opinion is that Pat stepped over the line and, instead of sticking to facts, veered into personal insults. And Dave over reacted by kicking him off the forum.

Jim, Mark and Pat, like JR before them, are invaluable contributors to what make this site. Losing any of them on purpose is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Pat should have been disciplined in a less serious way.

And, just in case, I did sign up on another forum (the one in the e-mails).

John

John, I hope things will get resolved. I've taken a quick look at that new forum. I've seen you have a few posts there. Looks promising.

Stephane:
Rumors of my banning from GDC have been greatly exaggerated!!
However:
I of course don't know the particulars as to Pats or Marks banning but the usual procedure ar least when I was a Moderator here was to give multiple warnings before that decisive of a step was taken.
It seems that's there's less and less tolerance here and I watched this develop since the adoption of a code of conduct requiring political correctness among other things in a hobby that's about as politically incorrect as you can get. I quit posting here for about a year as I was so discusted at what was occurring. Couple this with the constant stream of disappearing threads and the picture becomes gloomy.
A great deal of knowledge and expertise has been lost over the years due to what I, and I know many others, feel is extreme inflexibility on GDC. As far as I'm concerned this forum would stand itself in good stead if it has a once a years retraction of ALL suspensions and bannings.
Jim

Jim,

I second your motion, great idea!

Bill Warda

Ps how about the winter solstice that's coming up? A good time for rebirth and growth, eh?

Yes a general amnesty would be a great idea. This is Thanks Giving weekend up here in Canada. It would be a nice way to mark the occasion.

I too am nostalgic about the early days of GDC. I couldn't wait to get home from work and get on the site. I learned so much reading these threads.

Count my vote as a yes for amnesty.

John

So what if Pat got upset. Slap his pee pee, tell him not to do it again, and let us move on. Enough of banning the old timers.

Would someone send me the address of the new site mentioned here so I can have a look?
jtwallace@sbcglobal.net

I have noticed a significant increase in incivility, pointed comments, intolerance for the opinions of others, and outright personal insults on GDC in the last few months. To me, the most disturbing aspect of this are the posts made by a few senior members who are well known, have good collections, and have contributed their knowledge to the forum generously.

These senior members are not new guys who do not know our Code of Conduct, but long term members who have watched our Forum for years and should be familiar with our rules. I am at a loss to understand why this is happening. In my opinion, these same senior members should be setting an example for others to follow. Again, only my opinion, but they should be holding themselves to a higher standard.

I notice above, and in previous situations like this, that a very few think that seniority, knowledge, previous contributions, or numbers of posts is a valid excuse for poor posts. I want to restate that our CoC applies to all.

The up tick in personal insults bothers Vern and I, as is unprecedented. For some time we have insisted that a personal insult must be followed by an apology to regain access to GDC and we will continue to do this.

The reason that Patrice is on vacation is between him and I. I will say that with the exceptions mentioned below*, no one gets suspended by me without previous warnings. And no one has been expelled without at least two or more suspensions and not just for telling jokes, either. I notice comments about members being “driven away”. That is true in a sense, but they drove themselves and scheduled their own departure despite warnings and multiple suspensions. I wish them luck.

I got an email from Patrice so he will probably be back if we agree on a few things.

Regards to all,

Dave

* The exception to the above are the anonymous crazies that occasionally show up with a blast of obscenity, the repeat cheats such as Powel Nowak, Mathias Fritz and a few lesser know luminaries, and a few misguided folks like the gentleman from Shanghai who kept posting his lengthy price list of discount athletic goods. There are also a few people suspended who can return anytime by correcting their problem with the “For Sale” area.

Hohaus above:

quote:

I will say that with the exceptions mentioned below*, no one gets suspended by me without previous warnings. And no one has been expelled without at least two or more suspensions and not just for telling jokes, either.

Email from Mark Paul:
I was never warned at all. Plus a 90 day 'suspension'. The Code of Conduct says suspensions are for less time.

Email from Patrice Vialle:
Absolutely not, I was never ever warned recently.
I did get warned about 3 years ago but that's a long time ago.

I suppose since I was warned about something several years ago I'm now eligible to be suspended. Even the blood ****ing credit bureaus take items off your report after a couple of years. Well have at it.
Jim