UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Helmet Forum Question....any answers?

I have a question regarding the Q M40 Heer I posted a couple days ago under 'My latest addition'. First, I'll explain. The inside has a fair amount of rust, however, the outside shows virtually none. Wherever the paint is chipped or worn off, it's just lightly oxidized grey color. Do 'Q' helmets have some type of additive in the external paint which prevents rust from forming, or is there another explanation?

Andrew

An interesting question, Andrew. I looked at your photos and the exterior wear appears completely normal as does the interior. From what I can see the rust is concentrated on the skirt area. It doesn't appear that much is in the crown , but the liner blocks the view. I have seen this before and while I am not certain there are a few possibilities. Perhaps condensation from the heat from a soldier's head along with sweat & etc. builds up on the interior and attacks the metal. In other cases, the helmet sits outside, upside down in the rain for a long period. This does not appear to be the case with your helmet and the liner, which would have been water damaged, looks good and supple. I am almost certain that there was no special treatment given to the exterior of these helmets. Perhaps someone else has some ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev.Mike:
An interesting question, Andrew. I looked at your photos and the exterior wear appears completely normal as does the interior. From what I can see the rust is concentrated on the skirt area. It doesn't appear that much is in the crown , but the liner blocks the view. I have seen this before and while I am not certain there are a few possibilities. Perhaps condensation from the heat from a soldier's head along with sweat & etc. builds up on the interior and attacks the metal. In other cases, the helmet sits outside, upside down in the rain for a long period. This does not appear to be the case with your helmet and the liner, which would have been water damaged, looks good and supple. I am almost certain that there was no special treatment given to the exterior of these helmets. Perhaps someone else has some ideas.

Mike, regarding the sweat/condensation idea, that had crossed my mind as well. The majority of the rust is not visible from the pics, as the liner is in the way. Only thing is, I haven't seen this same contrast between exterior/interior in my other helmets. The worst of the rust is not visible from the pics, as the liner is in the way.
If anyone needs more pics to form an opinion, just let me know what you want to see, and I'll snap a pic.


Andrew

I suspect the interior would hold moisture due to the liner,poor storage ect...It is normal and I have seen this before..No worries with that helmet.


Glenn

quote:

Originally posted by Feldwebl:
I suspect the interior would hold moisture due to the liner,poor storage ect...It is normal and I have seen this before..No worries with that helmet.


Glenn

Thanks Glenn. Man, each one is a case of it's own. So much to learn!


Andrew

Upon closer examination, I have found that what I thought was bare unrusted metal is actually a somewhat metallic grey coating underneath the green finish. Anywhere the grey coating is worn through, normal dark oxidation is seen.

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Now that I've explained it better, my question is, is this dual layer finish something exclusive to 'Q' helmets? I haven't seen evidence of it on my other helmets. Just trying to learn something


Andrew

Here's a pic which I think better shows what I'm trying to describe. On the inner crimped edge of the helmet, you can see green outer finish, then the metallic grey coating or primer, and at the outer edge, the bare metal which shows normal dark oxidation. Maybe to you who have handled so many helmets this seems a stupid topic.
I have only handled 6 other helmets, but have not seen this intermediate layer on any of them, so please understand, from my perspective, it seems strange. Surely someone has looked closely at their helmets and noticed this before? If so, what types have you noticed it on? I'd appreciate your input, and I promise I'll shut up when I get my answer.

Andrew

I'm not really sure, but it appears that the Q products had the metal anodized before they were painted. It's not certainly bare metal that lies underneath the paint. I agree they were pretty resistant to rust. That may be something to do with Q helmets' metallic composition that may contribute to their unique heaviness. Would appreciate input also.

Shu

Andrew,

Without actually holding your helmet in my hands and examining it, I would suggest that your helmet has been factory re-issued and hence, re-painted. The original factory colour of these Quist helmets was a very grey feldgrau, which is what appears to be your base coat visible under the outer layer.

To my knowledge, helmets were not treated with a primer paint but rather a primer "chemical wash" before painting.

Cheers,

Thank you Shu and Darryl for your input.

Shu, glad to find that you have noticed the same thing regarding 'Q's. You mentioned anodization,--it does have that appearance. Hadn't even crossed my mind. A possibility? Maybe, but it sure would seem odd to go through that process for a combat helmet though wouldn't it?

Darryl, I shouldn't have used the term primer. I didn't know what else to call it. It doesn't have a typical primer type appearance. From studying with a magnifying glass under various lighting, I can best describe it as a metallic-or at least semi-metallic looking thin coating. As for how it appears to have been applied, my first guess would have been chemical treatment of the outer surface of the metal. Shu suggested anodization, which also seems a possibility. Regarding the repaint idea, I can't definitively say no, all I can say is that in hand to me personally, it doesn't appear so.

Andrew

I got some outside help with this. I will post the response I received from another collector:

"This is very common for Q M40 model helmets. That bluish anodized look is a primer coat they used prior to painting the helmets. So far I have only found it on M40 Q model helmets, not the others. I think it has to do with how the paint on those helmets tends to chip off and then expose the undercoating. This is a definite sign of paint authenticy, and most helmet collectors don't know about it or haven't discovered it enough to speak to it. But it's 100% acceptable - I have a few Q's that have the same thing going on."

Maybe this will help some other inquisitive newbie like myself.


Andrew

What's next, carbon dateing? NH....

quote:

Originally posted by norham:
What's next, carbon dateing? NH....

Do I sense a bit of sarcasm?
Sorry, but every time I get a new helmet that shows a characteristic that I'm not familiar with, I'm going to analyze it to death until I understand it. These pieces come at a cost, and I want to learn what I can about them.
Anyway, with this one, all my questions are answered, now I can just enjoy having it.

All the best,

Andrew