UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum Reddick trash

I suppose I am the last to know. I just purchased a copy of the October 06 issue of Militaria International Magazine. Ten pages or so in the noted dealer has an advertisement for "New--Rare Enamel Badges" wherein are offered either the Heeresbergfuhrer, Polizei Berg-Fuhrer or Bergwacht Hilfspolizei for $35 each. Eloquently described in detail, although incorrect, the sales pitch never mentions reproduction. These are original? Not so described, though neither are they described as repros. A nifty way to avoid fraud charges I suppose. I still do not understand after all these years, the hypocrisy of the Max and the SOS, to rent space and legitimacy to this man/company.Is money so dear?

Does he show images of these or just a description?

If there are images it may be worth posting them so we know what to look for & just how bad/good they are.

Cheers
Don

quote:

Originally posted by JWotka:
I suppose I am the last to know. I just purchased a copy of the October 06 issue of Militaria International Magazine. Ten pages or so in the noted dealer has an advertisement for "New--Rare Enamel Badges" wherein are offered either the Heeresbergfuhrer, Polizei Berg-Fuhrer or Bergwacht Hilfspolizei for $35 each. Eloquently described in detail, although incorrect, the sales pitch never mentions reproduction. These are original? Not so described, though neither are they described as repros. A nifty way to avoid fraud charges I suppose. I still do not understand after all these years, the hypocrisy of the Max and the SOS, to rent space and legitimacy to this man/company.Is money so dear?

I could not agree with you more ... It does seem to be all about lining pockets with silver! After saying that isn't it, more often than not, the collectors themselves who continue year, after year, to patronize and placate those individuals at the show (s)?

Collectors, those wonderful creatures, wandering around with their heads stuck in the sands of time, is it any wonder why they get taken by the less than honorable at the shows and through the mail?

I appreciate the heads up on repro. badges and would also appreciate any and all images.

--dj--Joe

Should this thread wander off topic or degrade in subject matter we will see about moving it to the Community center.
Should forum members ever see or read something that causes vexation, please, either ignore it or count to ten before you reply.

Here is a scan of the advertisement. Notice the careful wording. No use of the word reproduction or orignal.But the use of the terms "rare" and "highly collectible" with the advertised mechandise is misleading as the purveyor surely knows these reproductions he is selling are neither.

And likewise, the Publishing Information of "Militaria International Magazine" is somewhat questionable as its avows that it and its "owners DO NOT knowingly accept false or misleading advertising.." The Reddick ad speaks for itself as it appears in an otherwise very interesting historical magazine.

Joe, yes very misleading,, but, nothing new for them..About 10 years ago they sold engraved bayonets. 5 or more different engraved patterns,different makers, stag grips..They were advertised as 'Leftover Wartime Stock!'..They of course were not.....,G.

I must admit that I have taken a closer interest in this fraud as it potentially damages the value of those original pieces in my collection that were difficult and expensive to acquire.But how to prove that a civil tort has been committed. But he does advertise and make sales by mail, doesn't he.

Does he have a returns policy? I'm wondering whether it would be worth buying a set, photographing & documenting their measurements & weights etc & then returning them......

That at least may give us a benchmark with which to warn peolpe with in the future.

Cheers
Don

Guys,

You know, it is probably worth the $35 to buy one of these just to see how close they are. I don't have an original but I know some folks do. Joe, I would buy one of Reddick's just to compare it to your good ones. He will be set up at SOS.

George

The problem with purchasing any of these is that in the years to come they will eventually find their way into the stream of the hobby. Unsuspecting collectors will be purchasing them, not knowing their true origin, and the cycle begins. I would send along a little suggestive note!

Makers of the GDC badges too...

They have an "800" number, so they are charged for every call that comes in...

You can see low-rez photos in their current flyer, plus a whole lot more: http://www.reddickmilitaria.com/pdf/current-militaria-flyers.pdf

My own feeling is that as long as I have been collecting Rex Reddick has been associated with postwar and reproduction militaria. Thus, any Reddick add advertising certain items would, at least in my mind, indicate the items are reproductions. There could hardly be a misunderstanding on that point.
If someone is trying to resell these items to unsuspecting collectors for a profit then the ethics problem is with the reseller but not with Rex Reddick.
In addition, Reddick is not the only outlet for replica militaria, there are many more out there. And some of those might not be as forthcoming as Reddick.
The fact is that there is a demand for replica militaria. And as long as there is demand there will be supply.
As for myself, I'm a dagger/sword collector and have at times displayed my stuff at gunshows for the general public. I frequently use high quality replica medals and badges as sprinkle material around daggers/swords on display. I certainly would never spend thousands of bucks on a Knights Cross when a high quality replica for $150 would do. And Rex Reddick provides the goods for that purpose.
There are some folks out there who knowingly try to deceive collectors with the intent on making undeserved profits. I think that we should concentrate more on lowering the boom on those crooks.

quote:

Originally posted by mvogel:
My own feeling is that as long as I have been collecting Rex Reddick has been associated with postwar and reproduction militaria. Thus, any Reddick add advertising certain items would, at least in my mind, indicate the items are reproductions. There could hardly be a misunderstanding on that point.

There are some folks out there who knowingly try to deceive collectors with the intent on making undeserved profits. I think that we should concentrate more on lowering the boom on those crooks.

I agree however, enviably this garbage will find its way into the main stream, show some wear from being handled or mishandled over several years and, if they're really good repros, will most often pass as genuine in the eyes of the new era collectors.

Unfortunately, this is a circle without end and will continue long after we've passed this realm.

quote:

Originally posted by mvogel:
My own feeling is that as long as I have been collecting Rex Reddick has been associated with postwar and reproduction militaria. Thus, any Reddick add advertising certain items would, at least in my mind, indicate the items are reproductions. There could hardly be a misunderstanding on that point.
If someone is trying to resell these items to unsuspecting collectors for a profit then the ethics problem is with the reseller but not with Rex Reddick.
In addition, Reddick is not the only outlet for replica militaria, there are many more out there. And some of those might not be as forthcoming as Reddick.

Excuse me? It's okay for the farmers in Columbia to grow the weed, but the retailers on the street are to blame? You are an experienced collector and you wouldn't make a mistake. A newbie finding one of his creations on resale would. And what is forthcoming about Reddick. He is not making an obscene profit cranking out the repro mountain badges at $35 a pop. You think he operates for charity?

Can you honestly say that the ad posted is honest and not deceptive. And what of the magazine and their publishing statement. As worthless as the Max Show managements protests of no repros?

From the photos-I don't think these are very good copies-certainly not the type that would fool even a collector with minimum experience. Obviously the ad should say they are fake though. I do like to see the RR stuff at the shows -you can see first hand and in hand all the fake stuff they sell and what is new in fake stuff-you do need to keep up--but I don't think their stuff is all that good. As far as repros go I would rate it quite low in quality.

Houston, the Heer-Bergfuhrer looks dead on and the Police Berg-Fuhrer is dead on from the ad photo.

Well-I guess the best thing to do here is to post exactly what is wrong with the RR pieces so everyone knows. I'm sure there are some tell tale differences. I'll bet the Bergwacht is non magnetic-and it must be magnetic to be authentic. So there's a start.

This posting may take a bit longer to read than most however, I feel it's worthwhile and shall present a truer scenario about the quality of production in T.R. war badges. Possibly it may carry over into other period material as well?

Some N.J. collectors may remember a gentlemen by the name of Heinrich (Henry) Bodenstedt? Henry was a true, in all sense of the word, collector, mostly Marklin trains, T.R. period tin toys and lead soldiers; he also dabbled in T.R. war badges and had a fantastic German stamp collection to boot. Henry frequented the monthly militaria show in Toms River, NJ.

Henry had been a member of the H.J. during the T.R. wartime period, his father was a wellknown radio announcer of the time, his mother was a wellknown singer.

Henry has since left this realm and is hopefully at peace. He left behind much information to those who knew him, as I did.

Now, allow me to present information, with the hope that you will view it in a positive light?

On one of his visits to Germany, Henry visited a little known T.R. producer of badges ... a firm by the name of Sedlogic. Now, when Sedlogic found that Henry had been a member of the H.J., he informed him that he had "special" material in his private back room.

Henry purchased several each of the T.R. black, silver, and gilded wound badges in the original cellophane envelopes, among other items. When he arrived back home, he decided to open one of the silver badge envelopes and was very dismayed when he saw a couple of small black spots on the surface of the badge. He now looked at several others and noticed the same.

He immediately telephoned Sedlogic to inform him of this ... now, the reply astounded him, he was told to simply do what we did during the wartime period, take a little silver or gilt paint and touch up the spots.

The moral of this scenario, true as it happened, should tell you something about "original" T.R. wartime badges ... the general quality may not be what you may want to believe it was by some of the producers of this material.

The next time that you come across a badge that may look like it has been touched up, it may have been period done and, I would think twice about turning my nose up at it and terming it a fake or reproduction. This holds true for other types of T.R. wartime badges as well. I'm certain that even the better producers followed suit, not just with touching up badges but, with other aspects of production as well?

JWotka: I guess the ultimate question is what are you going to do about it. You are irate about a situation that you consider insufferable but which is part of the militaria scene thats been with us and will be so as long as there is a demand. We all like the sunshine but have to live with some rainy days here and there.
And as I mentioned above, there are some collectors who don't specialize in medals or badges and would be unwilling to pay thousands for a certain piece when a good replica will do to augment a theme display. What I'm saying is that there are people with differing collecting goals and we all have to accept that no matter if we like it or not. There may be others out there who don't particularly care for pedantic purism. dThere will always be crooks who will try to make their money the dishonest way but Rex Reddick isn't one of them.

MVogel, I guess you are saying put up or shut up? Let's say I am pursuing the matter.

How good are they. Well I caught the fake Ski Fuhrer badge (an old Globe one) in this photo but missed the Bergwacht badge that seems to be a Reddick example. Here is the forum where they were discussed.
http://www.militariacollecting.com/index.php?showtopic=27824&hl=mountain+badge
I just missed it. It must have been late.

Now MVogel, I certainly don't begrudge you your right to purchase inexpensive replica badges and medals to display with your authentic blades. But I do object to replicas that are not marked as such and are manufactured and advertised in such a manner as to deceive the unwarry. Call it pedantic purism if you will, but I believe replicas should be marked as such. And a company like Reddick Enterprises that you apparently patronize is not the paragon of virtue that you claim it to be.

But again, I question the show managements that afford such an operation prime locations to hawk their wares, yet portray themselves as concerned about the integrity of the hobby.

JWotka: "Put up or shut up" is a bit strong and not what I had in mind. My point is that if Reddick does not sell it then someone else will . The fact that Reddick advertises these badges in an add or catalog with his name is aldready indication that they are reproductions. It also provides the collecting community with an insight as to what is available today on the militaria replica market. I'd rather have it this way than some clandestine operator sneaking his stuff on the market via ebay.
In my experience I have never seen an outlet where one could buy original TR medals and badges for a relatively low price as many as you want and each one of equal quality.
The quality of some of the awards is going up because of better manufacturing techniques (die struck vs. casting) but this is only an indication of a greater demand for quality replicas.

Mr Wotka,

Sorry, I'm being a little dim today . Are you saying that the badges in the picture you posted are fake? as the thread on the link you provide seems to imply that they are original.... Although reading between the lines I suspect "Beamte" is casting doubt on the Bergwacht.

These badges are way out of my experience so I'm afriad I'm not sure what to look for.

Cheers
Don

Don, excuse the confusion. The badges at lower left and upper right are reproductions. The upper left and lower right appear from viewing the picture to be original.

MVogel, I am sorry I misinterpreted your remark. But I still do not understand the logic of saying that if Reddick didn't sell them, someone else would. We don't know that. If there was a greater demand for the finer quality fakes, then why are there not more faking companies like Reddick Enterprises? And you and I know what Reddick represents, but newcomers don't. And certainly, without a repro marking on the badge,
future collectors have no idea a finer quality fake is still nothing but a fake.

I might ask, why wouldn't Reddick add some marking to indicate the item is a reproduction? It would hardly damage the marketibility. Would you mind if the back of the RK you bought from his company for display bore his company logo? But instead of that logo, he adds the name of a legitimate III Reich manufacturer. For what reason if not to deceive the buyer.

But this matter still gets back to Max and SOS management's acquiesence to Reddick blatantly selling unmarked fakes in their shows, to the detriment of the collecting constituency. And the only way to change that is complaining and deriding the managment for their position.

JWotka: Rex Reddick is a distributor and not a maker of fake militaria. There are several outlets here (US and Canada) and in Europe that carry the same stuff.
No, I would not want a well made replica sold by a militaria dealer like Reddick marked as replica. If an unsuspecting newbee thinks he can get an original KC for $150 than he's got to be incredibly naive. Thats about like jumping into a pool without knowing how to swim. Furthermore, there is all kinds of fake jewelry being sold that is not identified as such. Legitimate outlets clearly state that. Have you ever seen a ring with a fake diamond that was identified on the ring itself? And you just don't buy a diamond ring from 'Greasy Joe and his fly-by-night enterprise' down there in the bowery unless you are just dying to get rid of your money.

When Reddick sells a replica for the price he lists then I can't see any intent here to deceive the buyer.

If someone intends to deceive he would find a way to somehow remove or cover any special fake-identification on a medal or badge. Where there is a will there's way.

You may wish to dignify and sanitize Reddick's operation by calling him a distributor. His company may sell in quantity to dealers or groups; but, he is still a major dealer who sells "rare enamel badges" that are "highly collectible" with "correct type pin backs" and occupies one of the largest dealer table sites at the MAX and SOS. With his size operation, he can control his replica producers if he would wish to do so.

And I am not down in the Bowery when I visit the MAX or SOS. All I see are the largest concentration of dealers in my hobby that are urged by management to label replica pieces. At least that is what I am told. What else can I expect.

Your write,"When Reddick sells a replica for the price he lists then I can't see any intent here to deceive the buyer." Well, Reddick isn't selling replicas. They aren't marked as such and they cetainly aren't advertised as such. His cheap price gets them into the market place where the price can go up and the newbee you show little concern about can be burned significantly.

But I would really like to know why you would object to his replicas being marked replica. And why would you call Reddick a "militaria dealer"?

I am with JWotka on this one as the advert could indeed be deemed 'misleading'. I cannot comment on the advertising standards in the US, but in the UK it could be argued that this is misleading and could fool some into thinking they were buying an original piece.

There is a place for replica insignia, but I also wonder why makers do not mark them clearly as such with a small mark on the reverse. A simple stamped 'R' would suffice on the back of metal insignia. In the UK, I know several coin makers who mark their items are replicas in both adverts and on the coins themselves, otherwise they could be passed off as original as they are very convincing. The ones that I dealt with think they had a moral obligation to do this, but this simply is not the case with military items.

It will be interesting to see how long it will be before one of the aforesaid items is on ebay, or a dealer site and described as original with a price tag that would look like it may be the real thing. 6 months? A year? Who knows? A replica stamp on the reverse would help reduce this.

I bet in 5 years time you will be discussing one of them that some poor sod has bought as original and posted to show forum members only to find out it is worth nothing.

Raymond

A few years ago we had discussed the same subject involving other militaria. What we determined was that it was an interesting topic but implementation of these ideas presented lots of difficulties. In order to ensure compliance requires legislation and enforcement, unless you have other plans that guarantee the same results. Considering the general public's sentiment over Nazi memorabilia chances are they probably outlaw everything with a swaz. And any informal agreements within the collecting community would hardly ensure compliance. Even with official legislation how would you enforce the agreement with stuff coming from Eastern Europe? This is why I asked how you would implement and enforce the 'R' in a world community. Its great to say 'lets do something about it', its another to specify 'how' - and making it work. Unless compliance is universal, its useless.

I don't know of any major repro dealers like Reddick at the shows like SOS or MAX or who advertise in magazines like Militaria International Magazine. Action on his part would be significant and any universal compliance would be unnecessary. He would tell his suppliers what he wanted. Then perhaps other dealers who offer repro/replacement items like dagger acessory parts, and so forth would follow suit.

I just don't understand why collectors would want to protect these dealers. I guess this horse has been beaten quite well. Unless we all got quite mad as hell and told them we weren't going to take it anymore, the hypocritical practice will continue. The magazines and the shows are interested in our money far more than our welfare or the welfare of the hobby.

Hi mvogel

You are correct that a universal compliance would never happen and take aboard your comments.

I would disagree that if it is not universal compliance it is useless.

Is it so wrong for one of the big sellers in the US or UK to do something on their own and then maybe a couple more would follow suit.

Just because everyone will not do it, does not mean that it is a pointless exercise.

They could actually make some capital from it from the collecting community who would probably applaud their actions for trying to do something. They would also distance themselves from those who merely manufacture items to deceive collectors into thinking it is the real thing.

Raymond

Raymond

All aside, Rex Reddick has been a contributor to several references on the 3rd Reich in the past, and has even been on board to help publish these references recently.

We seem to have 2 topics going here now:

Marking of Reproductions

Raymond suggests that if repros were marked the collecting community would probably applaud their actions for trying to do something. But when the applause faded, I think their profits might fade a bit too. That is probably why no steps have been taken to mark reproductions in ways that would be very difficult to defeat.

But this has been true for centuries. People were faking the Dutch Old Masters before the masters were dead. Try buying '50 car parts, Jeep parts, Tifany (sp?) glass. If the original is worth $$$$$, it will be faked.

Rex Reddick

Rex Reddick sells reproductions openly at the shows which is one giant step ahead of sellers who try to pass repros off as real or 'transitional'.

Joe, I appreciate that he finally got around to selling reproductions of YOUR area of interest and that has distressed you, but we have been discussing Rex Reddick's blades since the Forum was started. To someone with experience or the common sense to ask knowledgeable people, his blades are no mystery. I suspect that the same will prove true of these badges.

Also Joe, exchanging views with Manfred will only lead to exchanging more views with Manfred. I suggest you buy one of each of the things, photograph them and point out the errors so everyone prepared.

Dave

How many collectors do you think are irate at Reddick? Usually people air their anger at those who deceived them directly. And Reddick does not directly deceive anyone. This is why you will not encounter a great outcry by an overwhelming majority of the collecting community.

Raymond: You say that if one seller does something on their own then maybe others will follow. Maybe??
What would be the incentive for that? Remember now that those collectors who buy reproductions don't complain about the state of current affairs. They buy from those who offer the best quality. And those items that are defaced with the 'R' are of little interest to them. I wouldn't want one of those things and I don't know of anyone who would. Another point is, what would an unsuspecting greenhorn know what that 'R' means? Maybe its part of the maker mark or the owners initial? If a buyer is totally uninformed and unaware that there are replicas out there he would most likely believe anything the seller tells him.

Excuse me while I barf as JR attempts to canonize Reddick for his "contributions" to the hobby. Helping with all the recycled-info hobby books offered to collectors while he cranks out more repro bastards of original pieces.

Actually Dave, the major topic of the thread was the acquiesence of the major shows and publications in supporting Reddick's efforts to pump more repros into the collecting stream. I don't see repro antique car part companies setting up at the Concourse d'Elegance. Yet some applaud Reddick for openly selling repros at shows instead of furtively passing them off elsewhere. Well I see no difference between him and "sellers who try to pass repros off as real or 'transitional'."

If he doesn't mark 'em repros or advertise them as such, he's screwing us, even if you daggers collectors have been a taking it for upteen years.

I'll take your advice and ignore Manfred from now on.

Agree or disagree but there is validity to what Jon says. cheers, Ryan

Sorry, Joe

JWotka: I'm trying to maintain this discussion on a level that promotes the calm exchange of ideas. I realize that you feel very passionately about reproductions and my point is that it is up to you to DO something about it. In order to garner support for your position you need a specific and workable plan. Since it appears that there are many in this hobby who don't feel as strongly about it as you do, not to mention those who oppose it, you have an uphill battle on your hands. And by issuing strong statements against some of those who don't share your passion is even more counterproductive.

'Why fumeth in sight?' 'The Righteous spite in fury raging stout!'
Thomas Tallis

There may be a simple solution to all this nonsense ... JUST SAY NO to those selling them. You certainly possess the ability to do so but, would you?

Those who are complaining try educating the novices, some of the old war horses as well, with information that will help them to make intelligent decisions. And, those who support the reproducers, get real, you're not helping the hobby. I've been expressing my feelings for many, many years now and, fortunately, they haven't fell on all deaf ears.

The only side that I'm taking in this is my own.

Oops. Can't follow Dave's advice.

I am calm, cool and collected Manfred. Hey, I like the witty ditty you posted. Did you do all those chapter couplets for each of Johnson's dagger installments? Well someone must have worn out their Bartlett's Famous Quotations. I found my sobriquet on a coffee cup.

You're right of course. I need to do something about it. I was trying to shame the show management with this thread, though that idea is apparently not working as only twelve members have contributed. And of those, I don't know how you can divine that many in this hobby don't feel as strongly as I do or oppose my views. I think you and JR are a minority on this thread who support (or have supported?) Reddick's flood of un-marked reproductions of III Reich militaria.

Do you really believe people think less of me because of my animated arguments with you and JR? There have been several hundred people tuning in on this thread. I guess the problem doesn't concern them if they haven't been burned.

So I will end this with this witty ditty. The best one I could find dealing with the subject matter.

"It is almost always worth while to be cheated; people's little frauds have an interest which more than repays what they cost us." Afterthoughts, Logan Pearsall Smith

JWotka: It really shouldn't matter what people think of you, what matters is what they think of your crusade. The several hundred people you mention obviously don't see fit to respond one way or another which spells much like indifference to me. My take on that is that they probably have different, more pressing issues. And for many collecting is truly an easygoing hobby rather than an intense investment program.
You are probably right that some people don't get involved unless they get burned. But thats how things are.