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JohnZ #295715 03/17/2014 10:44 PM
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This is the frog and scabbard that came with the above bayonet. What impression do you get when looking at the frog. Its very tight on the scabbard. It also seems wider than a lot of frogs for dress bayonets






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Terry,

That is a rather crude frog. I suppose it could have been locally made since the bayonet is from occupied territory.


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ORPO #300405 09/07/2014 01:41 AM
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Hommel w/Klass TM
I know that this not the first time we have seen one, but I now have one for myself. John Z has one and another member has one. I seen one of these 25 years ago but didn't buy because of my inexperience with the TM.



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Very nice pick up Terry. Quite scarce, I dig the Hummel name being in an arch over the storks, cool stiff.


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Terry is correct. My Hommel is on a double etched bayonet, neutral on one side and a dedication to Inf Regt 106 on the other.

Obverse.JPG (40.04 KB, 183 downloads)
Obverse Etch.JPG (40.29 KB, 182 downloads)
Reverse.JPG (40.93 KB, 184 downloads)
Reverse Etch.JPG (39.98 KB, 182 downloads)
TM.JPG (39.85 KB, 182 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #300435 09/07/2014 04:19 PM
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A beautiful etch with an obscure distributor marking, something for everyone smile


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Terry that frog dose look a little off but looks pre-1945

This one to me looks post war it's wider than normal over size rivets. This one came on a fire bayo, I've never gave it much added value to the piece just left it as is.

Steve,

image.jpg (68.77 KB, 164 downloads)

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You can see the machine marks up the back side and the stitching dose not match any I've seen.

image.jpg (76.33 KB, 163 downloads)

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And last one. It dose look the like the bayonet has been in for some time but still doesn't make it pre 1945

Sorry for the bad iPhone pics

Steve,

image.jpg (83.75 KB, 162 downloads)

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Steven,

Your frog is made in the Czech manner. It looks like it has been on the scabbard for a long time and the Germans did use a lot of Czech equipment.


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ORPO #301794 10/29/2014 06:06 AM
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Great bunch of trade marks thanks for the excellent work have identified some of mine. timothy

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On Gunboard had one collector attached a strange distributor mark, on KS98 made by ACS. b.r.Andy

distributor.jpg (99.1 KB, 227 downloads)
AndyB #302496 11/15/2014 10:48 PM
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andy

Was this the only photo. I was wondering if it was a pre-warII bayonet


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Andy,
That is the first time Ive seen that TM and a real treat to see thanks.

Terry, when I first looked at it I didn't think about it may be WW1 time frame, it would be great to see more photos of it.


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Has anyone heard or seen the TM of Widmann & Sohn, Munchen, Sorry about bad photo.



Last edited by TKissinger; 11/16/2014 04:29 AM.

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Gunboard link
The bayonet is non magnetic, short blade KS98, made by Alcoso ACS Solingen. So i assume 3R piece.

AndyB #302515 11/16/2014 03:10 PM
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That ACS bayonet with unusual mark is something I would love to own. The mark is quite unusual & I've never seen anything like it. It almost looks to be a regimental mark with all the stuff going on.

I would agree with Andy that if it has that Alcoso mark that it's probably 3R era example.


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Terry
I have a couple of hunting knives with the Widman & Sohn Munchen maker mark from the mid 1920's.

Gary

Baz69 #302683 11/22/2014 01:28 AM
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Baz

That fits with the style of the bayonet. Notice how thin the cross guard is compared to ACS pictured. I own 2-3 pre-WW2 dress bayonets and they have the same characteristics as this one.



Last edited by TKissinger; 11/22/2014 01:31 AM.

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Happy Thanks Giving to all

I have some good news and bad news.

The TM mark below is Robert Klass Messerfabrik, Solingen-Ohligs
The bad news is that it is post war per W. Weavers book Titled An Encyclopedia of German Trade names and Trade marks 1900-1945. I guess Fisher was wrong on this one.



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Another one

Hommel

Hommelwerk GmbH, Mannheim-Kafertal; A tool maker noted for the production of various small arms tools and gauges during the National Socialist era.


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Also Billy G. was correct on the HK TM. Heinrich Krieghoff Waffenfabrik, Suhl [variant]


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Terry,

Wow, Hommel was a manufacturer? I figured for sure they were a distributor.


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I see, in Fisher, that Hommel in Mainz (a branch office) and in Mannheim-Kaferthal (the head office) was a manufacturere of NS bayonets.

With the logo of the twin cranes, I thought the same as Billy... that Hommel was a distributor of Klaas blades.

Thanks for showing us the error of our thinking, Terry.

John

Obverse 1.JPG (42 KB, 220 downloads)
Reverse 1.JPG (40.75 KB, 220 downloads)
Obverse Etch.JPG (40.29 KB, 219 downloads)
Reverse Etch.JPG (39.98 KB, 219 downloads)
TM.JPG (39.85 KB, 220 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #302927 11/29/2014 04:52 PM
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Interesting that in the companies bio it doesn't show the war years. Its still interesting that Hommel and Klass combined TM symbol and name on the same side.




The J. Hommel, Aschaffenburg is probably a different TM/Distributor.





1876
Hermann Hommel, Geh. Kommerzienrat (counciler of commerce) founds the "Technisches Werkzeuggeschaeft H. Hommel" in Mainz, a commercial company for tools and machine tools.

1893
Hermann Hommel establishes a factory for precision measuring tools in Idar-Oberstein. His aim is to produce adequate, high-precision measuring tools for the metal-working industry which was increasing at that time.

1910
Company moves to Mannheim Kaefertal.

1924
Affiliation to the Otto-Wolff-Group.

1973
The group acquires the company Gerhardt Messmaschinenbau in VS-Schwenningen, integrating it as a branch. In the course of structural modifications of the group, Hommelwerke is transferred to VS-Schwenningen.

1990
Take-over by Thyssen AG.

1997
De-merger from Thyssen as part of a management buy-out.

2000
Take-over by JENOPTIK Laser, Optik, Systeme GmbH.

2001
Integration of JENOPTIK's optical shaft measurement technology sector (formerly Steinheil) into Hommelwerke.


2002
* Strategic alliance with Detroit Precision Hommel Inc. to serve the US-market.
* Acquisition of Optische Sensorsysteme GmbH and extension of product range with Optical Inspection.
* Acquisition of Somicronic SA and foundation of HOMMEL SOMICRONIC SARL to strengthen the position in the French market.
* Hommelwerke is accredited DKD calibration laboratory according to DIN EN ISO/IEC 17025 for calibration of roughness, profile depth, roughness measuring systems (since 1980) as well as - new - roundness, straightness, parallelism and magnification standards.

2003
Acquisition of IBP Messtechnik GmbH and completion of the form measuring products range.

2004
Cooperation on Telstar Hommel Corp. - fortification on the south-korean market

2005
Hommelwerke acquires new stake in the Czech and Slovak market for industrial production measurement technology.

2006
*Joint Venture in Shanghai: Hommel-Telstar Shanghai Measuring and Automation Co., Ltd.

* Hommelwerke GmbH acquires French measure-ment technology company ETAMIC SA.


2007
Merger of the Hommelwerke GmbH and the Etamic SA into the HOMMEL ETAMIC GmbH.

Last edited by TKissinger; 11/29/2014 05:04 PM.

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Not the first company to conveniently forget the past. I get the fact that they produced items which could have been used in the war effort & that perhaps they're a little squeamish about that but the evidence is plainly there. I think they don't need to "admit" anything but the conspicuous failure to mention anything seems worse than they actual truth.

Bertram Reinh. also likes to dispute that they manufactured SS daggers during the NS zeit, good luck convincing anyone of that.


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Hi! please have a look on this sword section thread

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=303524&gonew=1#UNREAD

Best regards & merry Christmas for all!

Nacho

Last edited by Nacho Garcia; 12/25/2014 08:29 PM.
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My good friend Chester L. found this one for me. I had been looking for several years. Easy to find the ACS TM, but AWS had eluded me. The blade is not plated but is magnetic along with the Rivets, hilt is non-magnetic. The blade had been lightly sharpen but polished up well. Don't normally tell what I pay for bayonets, but for $41 a great deal. thanks Chester.



Last edited by TKissinger; 02/12/2015 09:49 PM.

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Hello experts, here is one marking from german forum, could You help on this.Thanks.Andy

KS98unknown.JPG (50.82 KB, 174 downloads)
AndyB #306204 03/15/2015 05:07 PM
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Terry,

I know you've been looking for an AWS for years, I've always kept my eyes open for you as well. It really is nice to see. A shame about the sharpening, I have a few scarce/rare marks that are also similarly disfigured but bought them anyway. Well done Chester & Terry!


Andy,

The exclamation point within the triangle is the mark of Richard Plümacher, not often seen on a KS98. I have this mark on a late production short model KS98 (one of the few non-fire pieces I own), it has nearly no plating on the hilt but the blade is immaculate.


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Here is the other version of this TM



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I believe the one Terry shows is even rarer than the logo with just the triangle & exclamation point. I bought the one I have because I liked the logo, it's on the only Heer dagger I own.

Here's mine

Bayo Plumacher.JPG (110.6 KB, 282 downloads)

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Thanks very much for help.

AndyB #306937 04/01/2015 05:55 PM
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Other interesting stamp on blade of a damaged KS98, found in Russia.

KS98maker.jpg (27.22 KB, 263 downloads)
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The AWS marking on service 84/98 bayonets is probably more common and seems to fall into two groups. Late German Police marked (still a high polish finish, which for Coppel Wehrmacht bayonets extended into as late as very early in 1942). And the later so-called mid-war 'commercial' bayonets from that maker with a much less refined finish. Nice catch!! smile smile Best Regards, Fred

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I know a lot of collectors will not use eban but every now and then a jewel appears. This one is a short blade, double marked with a yellow felt. Common Holler mark but has the MILITARWARENHAUS distributor. This is one of the best condition bayonets I have ever owned. The scabbard is also A1. Frog is a bit brittle but looks great.




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Great catch, Terry.

John


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Is this the thread your looking for?
http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php

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Here is a photo of a Fahnen Reuter Munster TM that I just picked up.


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Terry:

I have this mark on a Luft2 with the early no oval Horster mark on the other side.

John

Fahnen - Reuter Munster Distributor.JPG (39.73 KB, 122 downloads)
TM - No Oval.JPG (38.99 KB, 124 downloads)
Obverse Grip.JPG (39.84 KB, 123 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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