UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum FRIDERICUS "crossed keys" 2nd Luft

how rare are these makers please? big premium on price? if I can get one for low price I'll post it...

many thanks.

Fridericus with crossed keys?
Never seen that!
Usually Fridericus logo comes just with the script along the blade.
"Crossed keys" is the logo of F.Herder.
I'm anxious to see that logo!
A Hybrid?

Me also.I have just seen name along blade.
Otherwise???
Seiler

come to think of it that IS bizarre... I'll try to to make pix at the shop and report back....

"hybrid"? yeh right dood!

Hi David,
Here's a Army F. Herder with the crossed key's. Is this what you have? This is the only Army dagger made buy F. herder i have ever seen so i had to buy it. Back 5 years ago i got this for $350.00, wish they were still at this price in this condition.

Eric Wien

Here's a 2nd Luft by Fridericus. Got this maybe 7 or 8 years ago for $775 back then. Why did I pay big? It was a nicely conditioned piece with a scarce (if not marginally rare) maker, heavy silvered scabbard & near 100% gilt on the pommel swaz. True it doesn't have a nicely toned orange grip as I would have liked but I don't regret the purchase. Good luck finding one at any price.

Actually Billy that was a very fair price back then for such a rare bird. I say you did well !

Ed,

I certainly wasn't complaining but from memory, the more common maker Lufts in those days were going for $350-$450. At the time, I was looking for a rare maker just to fill the Luft2 niche & was happy with this one. It's not the rarest but was giid enough, it also came with the knot & a semi beat set of hangers.

Billy,
Can we see a picture of the Makers Mark.

Eric

I made an observation a few month ago.
There are two slightly different versions of the Fridericus logo.
I searched the forum for Fridericus TMs. And I found out there is a fancier, more ornated style logo, I think it is earlier.
JohnZ has a 2nd Luft with this mark:

An army from the internet with the same logo:

And the another mark you seen more often on 2nd Lufts.
This picture is from the forum again, posted by member "TRIPLE T".
It is the same what "Billy G" has on his Luft.

And my 2nd Luft has this TM also.
You can notice that characters in "Solingen" are taller on JohnZ's logo.
And the word "Fridericus" is different also.
I examined Whittmann's Luft book, and found a 1st Luft on page 68 with the same logo what JohnZ has on his dagger, so that's why I think that is the early version.

Janos

Yeah, and forgot to mention: I have never ever seen a Fridericus "crossed keys" mark!
Post it please David.

Janos

Here is the "crossed keys" TM on a 2nd Luft. They are hard to find!

Here are two pictures of my F Herder mark on a Luft2

Pic 1

A different view

I like a lot

F Herder was Friedrich Herder so could Fridericus be a bastardisation of Friedrich
Wittman lists Rich A Herder as a Luft 2 maker but not F Herder he does list Fridericus we really need a photo of the blade Mr Walsh
Please oblige

guys!

so sorry, my bad: the 2nd luft was a correct crossed keys herder - nothing about fridericus I must have been hallucinating or the morning coffee hadn't kicked in. :----- /

is there a lot more desirability/value to a herder 2nd luft? (not as much as a heer, I'll bet!)

but anyhow, I'm glad my odd question prompted y'all to show from nice steel. great items and commentary! thanks, david

Hi David,
I kinda knew you were thinking F. Herder. As far as i know F. Herder did not make many if any army daggers until i found this one, the plaster grip was fused onto the tang and i never removed it so i have to believe it's original. I did sell the F. Herder army a few years ago to buy a nice unissued 2nd model Arthur Schuttelhofe luft, all i have left are the pictures. Now Herder did make Luft daggers but are a rare bird indeed, it's not mentioned in Tom Wittmann's book either. I don't know too much more about F. Herder or why not too many are around, maybe they were a small cottage firm or made unmarked daggers don't know but i do remember reading about them on this forum when i first joined. Maybe John, Maxwell or Janos can shed some more light.

Last one of the once owned Army, I do miss it.

Eric

quote:

Originally posted by Janos:
And my 2nd Luft has this TM also.
You can notice that characters in "Solingen" are taller on JohnZ's logo.
And the word "Fridericus" is different also.
I examined Whittmann's Luft book, and found a 1st Luft on page 68 with the same logo what JohnZ has on his dagger, so that's why I think that is the early version.

Janos

Janos, If I have well understood your thought, I want to show you a first type luft Fridericus early period (all nickel fittings) with the 'later' character logo you presumed, and a 2' luft with the other logo. As we know the earlier first type was manufactured pre1937, I think the reason of the two different characters should be different

quote:

Originally posted by JohnZ:
Here are two pictures of my F Herder mark on a Luft2

Pic 1

hallo JohnZ. Attached are a couple of pics of the singl copper strand present on mycrossed keys 2 luft, provided with alu fitting (I presume weyersberg manifacture). Could you, and maybe all the owner of a 2luft f.herder, compare your fittings?

2

Some more photos of a Friedrich Herder which came with other items from the family of the original owner.

Photo 2

Photo 3

Photo 4

the doctor:

thank you for the picture.
As I am mentioned, what I wrote about the early and later type TMs is only a theory.
I detected the differences between the two Fridericus marks and tried to find an explanation.
Your beautiful daggers lead me to belive that my theory is wrong.
Perhaps Fridericus used two slightly different marks simultaneously from the beginning.
I still don't know why...

Janos

5th Photo

hallo janos, of course I post the two logos just to help to clarify your theory: sure none of us was there 70 years ago so we all can only have some certainties and many ideas. otherwise,this is one of the beauty of our daggers passion

maxwell, thanks for yr pics, I see a smf pommel (don't see the upper side of the guard, but probably smf too) a very nice orange handle with springy wire and a wkc scabbard....well, completely different from mine.....and john z ?

2 Fridericus TM's on Paul Dinger Blades. Sorry the quality of photos could be better!

2nd Luft

Maxwell:

Nice daggers... I just love the pair. I have yet to find a Luft Damascus for my collection, and when I do, it will be hard to match what you already have there.

The Doctor:

My F Herder has WKC parts, but I understand that they didn't make their own fittings, so that parts from others are acceptable.

Here are some pics of my Luft2:

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

Pic 5

Pic 6.. the wire

John

hi johnz -

nice dagg! I have a klaas 2nd luft with the all-gray fittings like yours, but mine has a little bit of "shine." was this an option offered by various firms?
also, where do the "crossed key lufts" fit on the desirability scale?

thanks.